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Ganking a botting hulk, 760 enough dps in 0.5?
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Aria Dallas
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-10-31 21:54:07 UTC
Hi,

760 dps: will that be enough to take down an untanked hulk in 0.5 assuming Concord has been prepped?

Thanks.


PS, can I roughly take the EHP of something and divide it by the dps to get the number of seconds it will take to kill or does it not work like that? (I'm guessing no because it depends on the resists right?)
Kairi Black
Shadows of the 49th
#2 - 2013-10-31 22:31:13 UTC
For ganking its alpha not dps.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#3 - 2013-10-31 22:32:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
EHP is Effective Hit Points, which is calculated by taking the base hitpoints and factoring in resists. If you have the EHP of the target, you already have factored in resists.

Note that the EHP shown by default in EFT or Pyfa assumes an even spread of damage types. If you're not certain, or the target has a wildly unbalanced resist profile, you may want to make sure you're looking at the EHP against the damage types you're going to deal.

Quote:
For ganking its alpha not dps.


This is blatantly wrong. Even in 1.0 CONCORD does not spawn instantly. Alpha is one way to gank stuff, especially in very high sec (.9-1.0), but low-alpha-high-DPS works fine, especially in .5
Aria Dallas
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-10-31 22:40:30 UTC
Well anyway, EFT says 3245 volley which I assume is what you mean by alpha.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#5 - 2013-10-31 23:56:39 UTC
760 is massive overkill for an untanked one.

I can solo a Hulk and its pod in 0.5 with 696 even if they start trying to escape (which means they have non-zero transversal and so I miss a little). Obviously I can't get the pod if the pilot is competent but few miners are.

760 means you are taking some risks with implants that may bite you in future. If you are using a multi-hundred-ISK pod, you might want a scout to have eyes on the station you intend to dock to, as you can be podded when docking if there's any hostiles in sensor boosted cruisers nearby. (Frigates don't usually have the range).

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Chateau De Nuef
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-11-02 14:24:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Chateau De Nuef
Kairi Black wrote:
For ganking its alpha not dps.

Depends on what you're ganking;
Using destroyers as an example; an arty Thrasher has a high alpha strike, good range and a quick lock time but a slow RoF, it's ideal for popping pods, shuttles and frigates due to their low EHP which allows for one shotting. The slow RoF means you only get 1 or 2 volleys in before Concord respond, D400 and Solstice Project use them to good effect, but only on certain targets.

A blaster Catalyst has high DPS, high RoF, a quick lock time but poor range, it's more suited to popping exhumers/barges and T1 haulers with a higher EHP than shuttles and frigs, as you can get in several volleys before Concord respond, it's the tool of choice for groups such as the New Order.

Both ships offer a really good bang for buck, but their use is situational.
Aria Dallas
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-11-03 09:48:18 UTC
So I ended up ganking a Mackinaw. scanned him and saw he had no tank. Went for it and it was over very quickly. Very unsatisfying. I ended up giving him tips on how to tank his mack and paying him back for his loss, that's how much of a wuss I am.

Anyway, an Oracle fitted with 8 L lasers is way over kill as an earlier poster suggested, at least for an untanked exhumer.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#8 - 2013-11-03 12:32:32 UTC
I don't understand why miners flying Hulks and Mackinaws don't fit a decent tank on them??? I looked at a few killmails recently and there were even empty slots that weren't filled with any resistance mods of even ones for mining yield !!!

These ships cost hundreds of millions of ISK. Please fit responsibly. Smile
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#9 - 2013-11-04 02:54:03 UTC
Aria Dallas wrote:
So I ended up ganking a Mackinaw. scanned him and saw he had no tank. Went for it and it was over very quickly. Very unsatisfying. I ended up giving him tips on how to tank his mack and paying him back for his loss, that's how much of a wuss I am.

Anyway, an Oracle fitted with 8 L lasers is way over kill as an earlier poster suggested, at least for an untanked exhumer.


Lessons are much more thoroughly learned if you do not repay them their loss.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#10 - 2013-11-04 03:40:13 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
I don't understand why miners flying Hulks and Mackinaws don't fit a decent tank on them??? I looked at a few killmails recently and there were even empty slots that weren't filled with any resistance mods of even ones for mining yield !!!

These ships cost hundreds of millions of ISK. Please fit responsibly. Smile

There are three general schools of thought:
A. Max yield, with the assumption that losses are rare events.
B. Max yield & cheap, with the assumption that losses are common events.
C. Max tank, with the assumption that losses would otherwise be common events.

I don't think any of the above are wrong, except in the case where a miner complains about a loss without taking responsibility for not taking any steps to mitigate risk.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#11 - 2013-11-04 11:37:54 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
I don't understand why miners flying Hulks and Mackinaws don't fit a decent tank on them??? I looked at a few killmails recently and there were even empty slots that weren't filled with any resistance mods of even ones for mining yield !!!

These ships cost hundreds of millions of ISK. Please fit responsibly. Smile

There are three general schools of thought:
A. Max yield, with the assumption that losses are rare events.
B. Max yield & cheap, with the assumption that losses are common events.
C. Max tank, with the assumption that losses would otherwise be common events.

I don't think any of the above are wrong, except in the case where a miner complains about a loss without taking responsibility for not taking any steps to mitigate risk.



What is wrong is an empty mid slot that could have held a shield resist module.

Or an active shield tanking module on an Exhumer with no shield resist modules.

Or cargo rigs that could have been resist rigs.

I love putting exhumers like that out of their misery. Especially if the pilot then buys their next hull from me after the loss.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Dream Kim
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#12 - 2013-11-04 13:14:45 UTC
Kairi Black wrote:
For ganking its alpha not dps.


Unless the Hulk is on a gate, you're wrong.

Ganking in a belt is all about the DPS, which is why the Catalyst reigns supreme.
Nolen Cadmar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-11-04 17:24:28 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
I don't understand why miners flying Hulks and Mackinaws don't fit a decent tank on them??? I looked at a few killmails recently and there were even empty slots that weren't filled with any resistance mods of even ones for mining yield !!!

These ships cost hundreds of millions of ISK. Please fit responsibly. Smile



I don't get it either. You spend that much on a large, slow ship...put tank on it. Invuls and DCU2, plus resist or extender rigs are a MUST.

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#14 - 2013-11-04 18:15:48 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
What is wrong is an empty mid slot that could have held a shield resist module.

Or an active shield tanking module on an Exhumer with no shield resist modules.

Or cargo rigs that could have been resist rigs.

I love putting exhumers like that out of their misery. Especially if the pilot then buys their next hull from me after the loss.

Ahh the days of Mackinaws with double IHU and three Civilian shield boosters (because nothing else would fit).

Back to the present though... some people don't bother fitting modules because they only add to the expense of a loss. Example: I don't put T2 modules, other than cargo expanders, on T1 Industrials.

With a Mining Barge though, I'd expect at least a survey scanner.

I'm not saying I agree with it though.