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Faction Warfare: System Control directly through PvP

Author
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#1 - 2013-11-04 08:58:00 UTC
Background info
The way to capture a system in faction warfare is to amass enough "victory points" for your faction in that system to make it "vulnerable" and then bash the iHub. The defending faction can reduce the attackers' victory points by doing the same stuff the attackers do to get them in the first place.

Problem
The only way to generate victory points is by running complexes. (Dust mercenaries also contribute towards system control, but complexes are the only way for EVE pilots to contribute).

Why is this a problem?
The clue is in the name... Faction Warfare. Running complexes is a PvE activity and although PvP frequently occurs within those complexes, it doesn't have any direct impact on the outcome of the complex. If one pilot kills another inside a complex the result is the same as if the loser had simply warped out instead of fighting. Combat which is directly related to system capture status should have a direct impact on the system capture status!

Proposed change (Option 1)
Faction warfare kills within complexes should affect the complex timer. Example: a galmil pilot destroys a calmil pilot's frigate within the capture radius of the beacon inside a complex. As a reward the capture timer is reduced by 1 minute. Destroying a larger type of ship would result in a larger reward. Neutral ships (not affiliated to any faction) would not have an effect on the timer when destroyed.

Proposed change (Option 2)
Every faction warfare kill that happens in a faction warfare system generates victory points proportional to the value of the kill. Those victory points are automatically allocated to the system control bar in the system where the kill occurs. Killing neutral pilots (not affiliated to any faction) would not generate victory points in this manner.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#2 - 2013-11-04 09:56:19 UTC
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Background info
The way to capture a system in faction warfare is to amass enough "victory points" for your faction in that system to make it "vulnerable" and then bash the iHub. The defending faction can reduce the attackers' victory points by doing the same stuff the attackers do to get them in the first place.

Problem
The only way to generate victory points is by running complexes. (Dust mercenaries also contribute towards system control, but complexes are the only way for EVE pilots to contribute).

Why is this a problem?
The clue is in the name... Faction Warfare. Running complexes is a PvE activity and although PvP frequently occurs within those complexes, it doesn't have any direct impact on the outcome of the complex. If one pilot kills another inside a complex the result is the same as if the loser had simply warped out instead of fighting. Combat which is directly related to system capture status should have a direct impact on the system capture status!

Proposed change (Option 1)
Faction warfare kills within complexes should affect the complex timer. Example: a galmil pilot destroys a calmil pilot's frigate within the capture radius of the beacon inside a complex. As a reward the capture timer is reduced by 1 minute. Destroying a larger type of ship would result in a larger reward. Neutral ships (not affiliated to any faction) would not have an effect on the timer when destroyed.

Proposed change (Option 2)
Every faction warfare kill that happens in a faction warfare system generates victory points proportional to the value of the kill. Those victory points are automatically allocated to the system control bar in the system where the kill occurs. Killing neutral pilots (not affiliated to any faction) would not generate victory points in this manner.


Can be rigged as hell.
Setup 10 FW alts in the opposing milita and kill them in unfitted t1 frigs in novice plexes.
Yea seems legit.

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Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#3 - 2013-11-04 11:11:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Swiftstrike1
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Can be rigged as hell.
Setup 10 FW alts in the opposing milita and kill them in unfitted t1 frigs in novice plexes.
Yea seems legit.

I have no doubt that some very determined people would do exactly that, but I'm confident suitable checks, balances, restrictions, requirements, rules, regulations, etc... could be put in place to prevent such exploits.

For example: Instead of "decrease timer by 1 minute" we could have "decrease timer by 10% of current value".

Destroying 10 frigates would then take the timer down from 10m to 3m29s. If that is still too much, then we could impose a stacking penalty on the bonuses from PvP kills. Or we could say that PvP kills have no effect once the timer is past halfway. Or we could say that the bonuses stack up in a pile, but are only applied at a rate of 1 per minute. Or any combination of the above. Or something completely different...

What I'm trying to point out is that the details are not important because this is just an idea. The idea is that PvP kills should have a direct influence on system control. My proposed implementation of that idea is just an overview, like a window with no glass in the frame. Of course there are gaps in it... it's only an overview! :-p

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#4 - 2013-11-04 11:21:15 UTC
Beside FW is programmatically designed to be a PvP/PvE hybrid, and beside any activity/gameplay in EVE is this kind of hybrid...

But, beside this, is not like nobody never thought to something that obvious and trivial:

Proposed change (Option 1)
Faction warfare kills within complexes should affect the complex timer. Example: a galmil pilot destroys a calmil pilot's frigate within the capture radius of the beacon inside a complex. As a reward the capture timer is reduced by 1 minute. Destroying a larger type of ship would result in a larger reward. Neutral ships (not affiliated to any faction) would not have an effect on the timer when destroyed.

Proposed change (Option 2)
Every faction warfare kill that happens in a faction warfare system generates victory points proportional to the value of the kill. Those victory points are automatically allocated to the system control bar in the system where the kill occurs. Killing neutral pilots (not affiliated to any faction) would not generate victory points in this manner.[/quote]


Do you realize that in this way if no enemy shows up you will never be able to capture a system? A militia get the warzone control and then simply do not show, never engage. So, to defend a system sovreignity people should be pushed to evade any fight? Such a great improvemnent!

Not to talk about the room left for alts abuses and exploits.



Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#5 - 2013-11-04 11:37:37 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Do you realize that in this way if no enemy shows up you will never be able to capture a system? A militia get the warzone control and then simply do not show, never engage. So, to defend a system sovreignity people should be pushed to evade any fight? Such a great improvemnent!

Not to talk about the room left for alts abuses and exploits.

Don't be silly lol, complexes would still work the way they do now. The "PvP control influences" would be in addition to existing mechanics, not a replacement for them.

As for abusing the faction warfare reward system by blowing up your own alts in the opposing militia... It's already been done to the tune of trillions of ISK. Like I said in my first response post, I'm confident that appropriate restrictions can make this work. I'm also confident that CCP will double, triple and quadruple check any future changes to faction warfare for potential exploits before they release it in light of past mistakes. Roll

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#6 - 2013-11-04 12:41:58 UTC
Swiftstrike1 wrote:

Don't be silly lol, complexes would still work the way they do now. The "PvP control influences" would be in addition to existing mechanics, not a replacement for them.



Yes, but it's the same, on some degree. it's just a wrong concept, no matter how much you develop it:

Those who suffer more loss are those who engage more often. Offering or accepting engagments should be always honored and never penalized: no matter if you win or loose you're offering gameplay and PvP.

I dislike "your" system because adds peanlities in term of warzone controls to people accepting engagments: those who never engage not only never suffer any ship loose but also got rewarded in terms of victory points/plexes timers.

Who deserve to loose the warzone control game are not the ones loosing engagments (at least they gave fights) but the ones not caring for their system, not living there, not defending, not undocking and not playing the game.

Your sugegstion is based on the wrong idea that tha goal of FW is the sovreignity and PvP a tool to reach it; and this is a null-sec mindset. On the countrary FW purpose is to provide a framework for solo/small gang PvP, and the WZC is only part of this framework.