Player Features and Ideas Discussion

We plan to "faliscade" in 3 months, 17 days, 4 hours, and 39 minutes.

I have likewise never seen 10 dessies gank a freighter. I have seen 20 do it, however...

I'll say this again: If you fly a valuable ship but don't want to invest in protection, why should the game be changed to help you?

Each module dropping is an independent event.

So your 10 modules, is for all 10 to drop. Indeed a less likely event.

This is true, at least for freighter ganks. I looked at this question and used some data from Uedama and concluded the chances of being ganked are not that common.

Perhaps if the OP could provide some evidence this really does indeed "happen all the time" and is indiscriminate as he claims.

You do realize a ship loss creates ISK with insurance, right?

An interesting idea. But I would have to agree with a prior poster: if you add such fines remove concord intervention or significantly delay it.

There is a better way to deal with suicide gankers: don't make the kill worthwhile. A tanked procurer costs more to gank than a tanked mackinaw. A double wrapped cargo in a freighter makes it impossible to gauge the worth of the freighter you wish to kill or have killed. Flying ships without officer fits on missions makes you less likely to be ganked than t2 fittings.

Fly as if you will be attacked by another player regardless of what you are doing (omni tanking instead of no tank or rat specific tank) will discourage most ganking, but not all.

Oh and if they did add such a change as fines, then they should fix insurance to cover the cost of losing a T2 ship instead of basing it on the T1 hull value.

a freighter can be ganked by 200m worth of catalysts, so any freighter carrying stuff worth more than 400m is under risk of being ganked.

Seriously, a ship that takes 3-4 months to train for, and 4-12 months to get the isk for, can be ganked by catalysts that take 3-4 weeks to train, and 45 minutes to get the isk for, and all this takes place in HIGH SECURITY systems!

Worst of all, most of those poor scrubs who get ganked have no idea it's even POSSIBLE to get killed in high sec, because it' not explained f*ing anywhere to them!

This is a laughable game design by any standards. no self respecting company would allow such a farce continue so long. it took CCP years just to remove insurance on gankers.


my ideas to improve things:

1- EXPLAIN and make a tutorial about suicide ganking so that poor noobs stop getting shat on for no fault other than not being informed.

2- change the mechanics and penalties in a way that a freighter should be able to safely carry at least 4b worth of stuff before it becomes gank worthy.

3- increase the penalties on suicide ganking dramatically, it's something that should be done only with a lot of consideration and risk, not some childs play that can be done on the whim without any serious consequences.

Challenge Accepted.

Firstly, why do training times factor into this? Are you arguing that something that takes longer to train for needs to be inherently superior to something that it a faster train? If that is the case, why can HIC's hold down titans? It takes a lot longer and much more investment to get into a titan, so surely they should be immune to a mere cruiser by that logic.

Secondly, I think it's fairly clear it possible to break the rules regarding highsec. I'm a new player, I've been subscribed for less then a year. And I learned almost instantly that it was possible to perform illegal actions, as it was mentioned that stealing from cans would result in being flagged. Combine that not so subtle hint that illegality is possible with the fact that many players talk about ganking fairly regularly in any form of eve-related media, news or informative site (like these forums for instance) and I feel like I have never been in the dark about the subject.

Thirdly, this is hardly laughable game design. Actions have consequence, breaking the "law" in highsec results in death, that's the price you pay. Again, I feel like this is fairly obvious.

Now, for your improvements.

1) I was never ganked as a noob. I've heard that griefing is possible, and I've also heard that it is a quick way to a ban. Fact is, the majority of people getting ganked are not noobs, they are people who fly unaware as I will explain.

2) You say that a freighter should be able to safely carry 4b. Why exactly is that? That's an arbitrary number. And a rather large arbitrary number I might add. No noob is flying with 4b in cargo, they probably have 10-20m in cargo. Hardly worth a suicide gank. And if a noob is flying with that much, good on them, because clearly they have mastered the way to make ISK quite early into the game. Saying that a freighter should be able to safely carry 4b in goods is quite frankly, ridiculous. That (from my point of view, at least) is a lot of money to be flying around with. It stands to reason someone would want to take precautions with hauling that much. If you want to move it safely, distribute it amongst several contracts with appropriate collateral. Or do haul it yourself, but with other pilots you've hired or simply made friends with guarding you against non-alpha ganks. Fit a tank, doing so will increase your life expectancy if you do get attacked, which, considering the gankers have a limited window to kill you seems like a very good idea me. Don't autopilot, that's stupid. And finally, if you do really want to move that much alone, then understand the risk and don't complain if you get killed. It's like walking through a bad neighborhood in a tuxedo while carrying bags of cash. Not a great idea, but hey, your money, your life, and if you get killed and don't whine about it I'll at least call you courageous.

3) How is it that suicide ganking is done on a whim without consequence? Gankers watch for targets, scan them to see if they are of value and then die in a ball of fire to achieve their objective. And if after all that they manage to turn a profit, that's due to luck and certainly isn't some quantifiable constant income. And while yes, ganking can be done on a whim, gankers still face the consequence for it. They still die in the aforementioned ball of fire. And if they are wealthy enough or are being paid to do so then that's hardly an argument that the system is broken it's simply a case of players putting money upfront to achieve something, regardless of how pointless or how important the objective may be in the grand scheme of things.

TL;DR: Ganking is hardly an issue due to players being uninformed. It's only an issue due to people taking high risks. And while it sucks to feel at risk or that your play style is being interrupted, I think it's fair to say you need to be prepared for it. I do missions in a navy battleship and I'm going to dock up if I see 50 flashy pilots spike local. It's an interference, but I need to ask myself "is it worth the risk?". Any attempt to remove that question from pilots minds is a bad idea. Even more so in highsec. If players don't ever need to ask themselves that question then it just creates an even bigger barrier to getting players into more dangerous space. Especially for new players.

Edit: Dangit ShahFluffers, once again I find myself replying to a post with a long answer right after you do the same thing. Stop taking my kills

If it were easy to gank a freighter with such minimal value, there'd be a lot more dead freighters.



A fresh character needs 36d4h3m20s to get into a freighter, that's hardly "3-4 months" of training. Also, why exactly should training time and ISK value matter here? Do you want to make this game even harder for new players?



Agreed.



This is not needed, freighter ganks are extremely rare.



Suicide ganking seems pretty balanced at the moment, compared to the numbers of Industrials/Freighters/Mission runners, only very very few die to ganks each day.

I did a rough estimation with Confederation of XXXPizzaXXX killboard and this is the result

Each player invests 10m in a Catalyst

If the freighter's drop is around 1b (usual lowest drop), each player gets 45m

If the freighter's drop is around 3b (average drop), each player gets 136m (rough estimate)

Now tell me that getting 450% of your investment in the usual worst case is not an extremely profitable bussiness even when loot fairy strikes with its fury against you and the drop is zero. And in the average situation, your revenue is 1360%

Btw, after getting an alter able to fly a catalyst with their fitting, I'll apply to join in the public pizza fleets. It would be plain stupid not to do it.