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SomerBlinks non-RMT RL earnings

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Annie Getyourgun
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#661 - 2013-11-01 21:12:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Annie Getyourgun
Argus Sorn wrote:


Every GTC sale is 34.99 taken from CCP, not the opposite.


CCP still gets paid for every GTC, they just don't get the full 35 for it, they get whatever price the reseller is paying by buying in bulk. CCP still gets their lion share, the reseller gets their cut, and the organization with the referral link gets their cut.

It really makes me wonder why they held on to GTC's after PLEX were introduced. Sure it would be a nightmare to do logistics with the current GTC resellers, due to tracking and etc, but there would be a lot more oversight about what assets are moving where. It would depend on a lot of factors, but the way Amazon sells PLEX linked to an account seems to be the direction they would need to move. Legal must be having a heck of a time playing CYA over this fiasco.
Kirren D'marr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#662 - 2013-11-01 21:20:14 UTC
Since most of the activity on this seems to have shifted threads for the time being, I made this post over there, but I'll repeat part of it here as an open invitation for anyone interested:

Kirren D'marr wrote:
You hit the nail on the head here but somehow arrived at the completely wrong conclusion: SOMER Blink was "conduct[ing] business," which is clearly against the EULA. They've been running a business which has reportedly grossed well over $135,000; a business which is promoted and utilized through their in-game activities (exchange of ISK and items). How is this not a violation? What possible defense is there for this?

For anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, here is the relevant passage from the EULA:

Quote:
Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited.


Frankly, I'm shocked that Somer et al. were not banned outright once the truth of their business came to light. Just because CCP not only permitted, but also endorsed this operation in the past does not mean that they cannot turn around now and take appropriate action.

I would recommend that all players who are upset over this issue begin issuing petitions reporting Somerset Mahm and all other characters associated with this business as being in violation of the EULA. Cite the business clause, and point to the relevant articles that illustrate the business connection.

If people make enough of a stink about this, then just maybe CCP will actually take action (I know it's a longshot, but at this point, it's about all I can come up with).

Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.     _ - Kina Ayami_
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#663 - 2013-11-01 21:21:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Argus Sorn wrote:

It amazes me that people still don't get this.

It doesn't matter if you get anything for your money - what matters is that SOMER gives away ISK and gets money for it.

I, and others, have written extensively on this - we can only bring you to the fountain, we can't make you drink. We offer you the red pill. You have to decide to take it.

SOMER converts isk into cash. It does not matter who wins the lottery - SOMER takes no risk in this venture and they are the RMT'er, not the bidders.

If you look close at what SOMER really does is sell, to a group of buyers, an item. The buyers then randomly decide among themselves (with SOMER's help) who gets to keep that item. SOMER gets paid what they wanted for the item no matter who wins it, and any of the isk that was paid toward the prize that was originally in the form of "bonus isk" is basically converted into cash.

If you cash out then (depending on the auction) you just paid SOMER a 20% surcharge to decide who among the bidders gets to keep the isk. You could have gotten together in a chat and done that for free with a random number generator (especially since SOMER, at least, originally used a 3rd party random number generator anyway). If all of the isk bid was from bonus isks (which with the amount being given out it will be) then they have converted that isk into cash.

As for the billion. CCP is a dupe to let it continue. SOMER is basically undercutting CCP on plex sales for the next 7 days - thumbing their noses at CCP and making cash for it. There is no guarantee there will be more TOTAL GTC sales because of this, just more GTC sales through SOMER in the next seven days. And every 1 bil they give out is 2 plex that no one has to buy down the road to keep their gambling habit fueled. Every GTC sale is 34.99 taken from CCP, not the opposite. They are injecting cash into the market - and it'd be interesting to see what the affect is. CCP needs to shut them down - but I am not sure they really see the threat posed. Clearly their economist has to, or if I am wrong, I'd like to hear from him why.

I facepalm at the folks who talk about it being "bonus credits" and not "real isk" or about how you might not win the item so it isn't RMT. You are not seeing this with clarity. RMT is not about buying isk - CCP doesn't care if you buy isk or they wouldn't sell you PLEX. The evil of RMT is the profiteering off of the game, the conversion of game currency into real cash for 3rd parties and SOMER just ramped it up full tilt and should be shut down for it.


Thats somewhat aside to the main point of what I was actually trying to say (some people seem to be under the impression that you bought GTC through Somer and they effectively handed you the ISK 1:1 directly just for that without even playing) - though the first bit of your post may be useful to people who are still unclear on whats going on. The second bit seems a bit flawed but I'm too tired to work it out.

I have to say that personally blink worked for me - I have a fairly stressful (high physical activity level) job and not a lot of time when I can sit down and get into eve - buying game time through them also mostly gave me a bit of ISK or a few ships to play with when I did get time to play and something to entertain me a little while on break at work (playing blink). I can't say personally I really cared about the RMT side as it was effectively regulated via the nature of the GTC/PLEX system so that its impact on the game itself is relatively minimal - of more concern to me is the uneven application of the EULA on the matter.
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#664 - 2013-11-02 00:06:23 UTC
gambling is bad mkay
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Frying Doom
#665 - 2013-11-02 00:10:05 UTC
J3ssica Alba wrote:
gambling is bad mkay

Well unlicensed, unregulated, unchecked gambling, that is using methods that try to avoid the laws, are bad mkayLol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Ace Boogi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#666 - 2013-11-02 00:10:15 UTC
ISD just pruned the official Somer thread again. they are going in there every day and removing every single critical post. apparently, dissent is 'trolling', and what really is funny, is dicussion of RMT isn't allowed Lol
Frying Doom
#667 - 2013-11-02 00:30:37 UTC
The problem is that thread is actually a violation of rule #21 and should be removed.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#668 - 2013-11-02 00:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Frying Doom wrote:
J3ssica Alba wrote:
gambling is bad mkay

Well unlicensed, unregulated, unchecked gambling, that is using methods that try to avoid the laws, are bad mkayLol


Do you actually need licensing for something like Blink? afaik if theres no option of a cash prize and no direct buy in (free tokens with another purchase don't count in most places) theres no need for a license in most parts of the world including most parts of the US.


EDIT: Some places do require a license if there is private or commercial gain involved even if the game itself doesn't require buy in with real money though :S
Frying Doom
#669 - 2013-11-02 00:37:04 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
J3ssica Alba wrote:
gambling is bad mkay

Well unlicensed, unregulated, unchecked gambling, that is using methods that try to avoid the laws, are bad mkayLol


Do you actually need licensing for something like Blink? afaik if theres no option of a cash prize and no direct buy in (free tokens with another purchase don't count in most places) theres no need for a license in most parts of the world including most parts of the US.

You do for the UK where CCP servers are, even in a country like Panama you need to pay a licence fee.

You can cash out to isk and convert isk to plex. So you can receive a service let alone the countries that consider online actions and goods to have value, like the teenager who got done in Europe for stealing virtual goods.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#670 - 2013-11-02 00:48:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
For most places the only thing that counts (including the UK) is actual cash and I doubt with the way Somer is setup its at all relevant where CCP's servers or even what country they (CCP) do business in is located.

(I'm not arguing the point here just interested in if they actually do need licensing or not)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#671 - 2013-11-02 02:31:12 UTC
Ace Boogi wrote:
ISD just pruned the official Somer thread again. they are going in there every day and removing every single critical post. apparently, dissent is 'trolling', and what really is funny, is dicussion of RMT isn't allowed Lol

good thing we'll just forget

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#672 - 2013-11-02 02:41:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Diomedes Calypso
Rroff wrote:
For most places the only thing that counts (including the UK) is actual cash and I doubt with the way Somer is setup its at all relevant where CCP's servers or even what country they (CCP) do business in is located.

(I'm not arguing the point here just interested in if they actually do need licensing or not)



Interesting reading on the subject (I remembered if from a little over a year ago)

Deals with how Korean and Japan and their legal conceptions of what in MMOs is considered gambling and budding regulation at the time.

Touches on it at least.

Article is at Gamasutra, May 2012

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/169887/Japanese_social_game_networks_take_a_hit_over_regulation_concerns.php

actually these might be better.. same place

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/35903/This_Week_In_Korean_Online_Gaming_News_From_Curfews_To_Gambling.php


http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/36908/Koreas_Game_Rating_Board_Publishers_Clash_Over_Jackpot_Items.php

.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#673 - 2013-11-02 02:51:32 UTC
Heh, crazy chaps

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#674 - 2013-11-02 02:52:32 UTC
Another on what Korean was seeing as RMT and interaction with Blizzard Diablo 3..

I didn't follow the story as much the last year.. was playing more games instead of reading about them.. but i'm swining back to the theory joy.

http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2012/06/korea-to-ban-sale-of-virtual-items-botting.html



http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2012/06/129_112964.html



actually . .this SOMMER thing is proably the right motivation for me to dig further into what happened after the articles

.
Maaaaowm Ogeko
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#675 - 2013-11-02 02:59:47 UTC
How Korea handles this sort of thing wouldn't have much if any relevance aside from just general interest; video gaming is very nearly the national sport there and teenage boys will starve themselves in front of a computer or console trying to get be good enough to go pro.
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#676 - 2013-11-02 03:06:01 UTC
Maaaaowm Ogeko wrote:
How Korea handles this sort of thing wouldn't have much if any relevance aside from just general interest; video gaming is very nearly the national sport there and teenage boys will starve themselves in front of a computer or console trying to get be good enough to go pro.



I agree.. I didn' t try to draw any strong conclusions but how international companies felt obliged to deal with them might. Again... really those articles were just a hint of a starting place.

Certainly better sites than the stuff we often dream up for each other . ; )

Sites like Gamasutra that are geared toward people working (or trying to find jobs etc) in the game development field tend to present different sorts of information than game sites directed almost entirely at potential game _players_

.
Frying Doom
#677 - 2013-11-02 05:23:34 UTC
Rroff wrote:
For most places the only thing that counts (including the UK) is actual cash and I doubt with the way Somer is setup its at all relevant where CCP's servers or even what country they (CCP) do business in is located.

(I'm not arguing the point here just interested in if they actually do need licensing or not)

You might want to re-check those UK laws as they go into specific detail about receiving services or articles in return

Gambling Act 2005 wrote:

(4)In this Act “prize” in relation to lotteries includes any money, articles or services—

(a)whether or not described as a prize, and

(b)whether or not consisting wholly or partly of money paid, or articles or services provided, by the members of the class among whom the prize is allocated.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#678 - 2013-11-02 05:46:51 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Rroff wrote:
For most places the only thing that counts (including the UK) is actual cash and I doubt with the way Somer is setup its at all relevant where CCP's servers or even what country they (CCP) do business in is located.

(I'm not arguing the point here just interested in if they actually do need licensing or not)

You might want to re-check those UK laws as they go into specific detail about receiving services or articles in return

Gambling Act 2005 wrote:

(4)In this Act “prize” in relation to lotteries includes any money, articles or services—

(a)whether or not described as a prize, and

(b)whether or not consisting wholly or partly of money paid, or articles or services provided, by the members of the class among whom the prize is allocated.


I posted a while back that CCP allowing player run lottos was going to come back to bite them on the ass sooner or later.

The tears will be epic if you lot manage to actually get them banned and I look forward with much anticipation to seeing the ensuing threadnaughts.

Mr Epeen Cool
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#679 - 2013-11-02 07:02:30 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Rroff wrote:
For most places the only thing that counts (including the UK) is actual cash and I doubt with the way Somer is setup its at all relevant where CCP's servers or even what country they (CCP) do business in is located.

(I'm not arguing the point here just interested in if they actually do need licensing or not)

You might want to re-check those UK laws as they go into specific detail about receiving services or articles in return

Gambling Act 2005 wrote:

(4)In this Act “prize” in relation to lotteries includes any money, articles or services—

(a)whether or not described as a prize, and

(b)whether or not consisting wholly or partly of money paid, or articles or services provided, by the members of the class among whom the prize is allocated.


I posted a while back that CCP allowing player run lottos was going to come back to bite them on the ass sooner or later.

The tears will be epic if you lot manage to actually get them banned and I look forward with much anticipation to seeing the ensuing threadnaughts.

Mr Epeen Cool

They can't be banned, they contribute so much to the community

too big to fail

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#680 - 2013-11-02 08:38:36 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Rroff wrote:
For most places the only thing that counts (including the UK) is actual cash and I doubt with the way Somer is setup its at all relevant where CCP's servers or even what country they (CCP) do business in is located.

(I'm not arguing the point here just interested in if they actually do need licensing or not)

You might want to re-check those UK laws as they go into specific detail about receiving services or articles in return

Gambling Act 2005 wrote:

(4)In this Act “prize” in relation to lotteries includes any money, articles or services—

(a)whether or not described as a prize, and

(b)whether or not consisting wholly or partly of money paid, or articles or services provided, by the members of the class among whom the prize is allocated.


I posted a while back that CCP allowing player run lottos was going to come back to bite them on the ass sooner or later.

The tears will be epic if you lot manage to actually get them banned and I look forward with much anticipation to seeing the ensuing threadnaughts.

Mr Epeen Cool

They can't be banned, they contribute so much to the community

too big to fail


Like BoB and Test?

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it