These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Rubicon] Mass moving in Fleets

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sekraf Reln
Perkone
Caldari State
#81 - 2013-11-02 00:07:36 UTC
my post isn't showing up, so sorry if this ends up a double post:

in addition to the 'warp fleet to x' provide an 'align fleet to x'

also, with this one, i would like to see all ships remaining where they are relative to all other ships that have recieved the above command...

specifically, all ships align, accelerate, and move only as quickly as the slowest ship. since an align command like this would only be given in preperation for a warp when time is NOT absolutly king, causing the squad to align slower individually, but just as fast as a whole, should not be a huge issue... also, this provides for the issues that arrise when an intercepter, or other 'faster than the others' ship is at the 'back' of the group, causing it to push it's way through the group, disrupting the alignment of others in the group... and then speeding away from the group once it IS aligned... causing the fleet to end up severely spread out before warp.

also, fleet 'warp in formation' would be nice... group CC warps to the actual target, members of the group warp such that they land with the same direction and distance from CC as when they started... allows setting up your group prior to going in, rather than having to use warp to ranges and end up in a long line..
Sekraf Reln
Perkone
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-11-02 00:09:58 UTC
Quindaster wrote:
Dear CCP
Before you do some new changes, first repair old bugs in fleet window, before you will create new bugs.

First, really annoing if someone join fleet - your fleet window refresh and blink, I mean going black on 1-2 seconds and after refresh, it's really annoing if many people join and left fleet, move in fleet - you just see whole time dark fleet window and nothing more, cos it blink all the time and impossible to click on any player in fleet and move it and you absolutely do not see who in fleet and what is going on.

Maybe this crazy new refresh idea was funny for non-playing eve game developers, but for players who really play this game every day, especially on few accounts - really annoing, and everytime when I see this blinking in fleet, I want to kill CCP and CCP devs with axe.

Maybe you didn't noticed this stupid thing if you test it on hard computer and only in one account, but when people play in few accounts - it's crazy. Especially before last 2 patches we didn't had this problems even if we run double number of accounts in same time, but after patch - even on 2-3 accounts we see this non-stop black blinking effect.



could be wrong, but this sounds like a graphics glitch... flickering black screens, sometimes sitting on just a black screen, is the result of not meeting minimum sys requirements...

if you don't mind my asking, do you meet the sys requirements?
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#83 - 2013-11-02 00:14:48 UTC
I made some changes that will hopefully reduce the blinking some, and with the mass moving, the moves will happen all at once and therefore require less updating than moving one by one.
I'm (hopefully) running a big test on this tomorrow, so let's see how that goes :)

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#84 - 2013-11-02 00:15:53 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
The fleet system does need a whole rewrite anyway. Especially considering the tendency the fleet window has to stop working, for ALL members of a fleet, at the most inopportune times.

I would love to get a bugreport on that (from within the client, right after it happens) so I can fix it Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#85 - 2013-11-02 00:34:30 UTC
Rudazara wrote:
While I am sure the Devs are taking that as a insult (they work hard to design cool stuff, I get it), the real issue is why introduce new things when a important game mechanic needs fixing? The other developer stated that a rework of the entire fleet system may have to occur in order to fix it. Is that going to happen, as it should?
We don't know, depends on priorities and stuff (which we are not in position to talk about).

These quality of life changes are aimed at making your life a little bit better when using the current systems. It's not saying we will never work on them, just that we are trying to make things a little bit easier for you now.

I like you (or at least most of youP), so I do spend a lot of my own freetime after hours and weekends to work on this kind of stuff, to make your EVE life easier, so getting slapped with "omg, why don't you work on feature A!!" makes me a bit sadSad

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2013-11-02 01:00:30 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
CCP karkur wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
The fleet system does need a whole rewrite anyway. Especially considering the tendency the fleet window has to stop working, for ALL members of a fleet, at the most inopportune times.

I would love to get a bugreport on that (from within the client, right after it happens) so I can fix it Smile

Nobody who falls victim to this is ever fully aware of the conditions that might have caused it, so any bug reports you receive may not be very illuminating.
It's also extremely sporadic.
I guess we're going to be waiting a while then.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#87 - 2013-11-02 01:01:15 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Rudazara wrote:
While I am sure the Devs are taking that as a insult (they work hard to design cool stuff, I get it), the real issue is why introduce new things when a important game mechanic needs fixing? The other developer stated that a rework of the entire fleet system may have to occur in order to fix it. Is that going to happen, as it should?
We don't know, depends on priorities and stuff (which we are not in position to talk about).

These quality of life changes are aimed at making your life a little bit better when using the current systems. It's not saying we will never work on them, just that we are trying to make things a little bit easier for you now.

I like you (or at least most of youP), so I do spend a lot of my own freetime after hours and weekends to work on this kind of stuff, to make your EVE life easier, so getting slapped with "omg, why don't you work on feature A!!" makes me a bit sadSad

CCP Karkur is the bestBear

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2013-11-02 01:42:47 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
I like you (or at least most of youP), so I do spend a lot of my own freetime after hours and weekends to work on this kind of stuff, to make your EVE life easier, so getting slapped with "omg, why don't you work on feature A!!" makes me a bit sadSad

Developer equivalent of http://xkcd.com/705/ Big smile Thank you.
Tiberu Stundrif
Nifty Idustries
Pandemic Horde
#89 - 2013-11-02 02:31:47 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
I like you (or at least most of youP), so I do spend a lot of my own freetime after hours and weekends to work on this kind of stuff, to make your EVE life easier, so getting slapped with "omg, why don't you work on feature A!!" makes me a bit sadSad


karkur, I do very much appreciate the effort you put into the Fleet system. It has needed an update for quite some time. When I first saw the heading of this thread, I expected a couple known bugs to be addressed but I came away disappointed. My response was an expression of that frustration though I came across as quite the tart. The code buried behind the Fleet system is most likely the topic of nightmares for any software team and I didn't mean to belittle that. Sad

With that said...

Fleet booster bugs and Wing Commanders not receiving bonuses is very, very important and I would like it to receive the attention it needs as soon as possible. There are some things that have been hanging around for so long they could almost be called features. Lol
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#90 - 2013-11-02 14:52:35 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:


I like you (or at least most of youP), so I do spend a lot of my own freetime after hours and weekends to work on this kind of stuff, to make your EVE life easier, so getting slapped with "omg, why don't you work on feature A!!" makes me a bit sadSad

Don't be sad, we do love the fixes done to small but annoying things.

But also note that yapping at each and everyone, deserving or not (and most often not), is the most obvious way for us to show our dismay over any sort of bug (real or not).

So don't take "why don't you fix X instead" personal, just forward them to whatever lead that has the the authority to make such decision ;)

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Conventia Underking
Underking Family
Khimi Harar
#91 - 2013-11-04 13:32:30 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
I like you (or at least most of youP), so I do spend a lot of my own freetime after hours and weekends to work on this kind of stuff, to make your EVE life easier, so getting slapped with "omg, why don't you work on feature A!!" makes me a bit sadSad


I think most players don't quite get the realities of being a dev that works on small 'quality of life' sorts of things or even cleaning up things to make them nicer, when what people get recognized for are the huge features. Thanks for making the game better and I hope you don't lose heart, cause clearly there are lots of players that like you too. :)

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#92 - 2013-11-05 14:29:20 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
The fleet system does need a whole rewrite anyway. Especially considering the tendency the fleet window has to stop working, for ALL members of a fleet, at the most inopportune times.

I would love to get a bugreport on that (from within the client, right after it happens) so I can fix it Smile

Nobody who falls victim to this is ever fully aware of the conditions that might have caused it, so any bug reports you receive may not be very illuminating.
It's also extremely sporadic.
I guess we're going to be waiting a while then.


It's the logs we would extract from you bug reporting from the client, rather than the insight individual users can give, that is important here.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#93 - 2013-11-05 15:34:47 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
The fleet system does need a whole rewrite anyway. Especially considering the tendency the fleet window has to stop working, for ALL members of a fleet, at the most inopportune times.

I would love to get a bugreport on that (from within the client, right after it happens) so I can fix it Smile

Nobody who falls victim to this is ever fully aware of the conditions that might have caused it, so any bug reports you receive may not be very illuminating.
It's also extremely sporadic.
I guess we're going to be waiting a while then.


It's the logs we would extract from you bug reporting from the client, rather than the insight individual users can give, that is important here.

I worked on a bug yesterday that had these symptoms. The logs were indeed useful as they did have a lot of errors which I fixed, and we'll have to see if fixing them will get rid of the problem (since it's not something we have been able to reproduce). If not, at least they are out of the way and then maybe it will be easier to spot what's causing this (that is, if people send in bugreports from within the client)

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#94 - 2013-11-05 16:14:11 UTC
CCP karkur, fixing all the things ♥

Little Things to improve ≡⋁≡ | My Little Things posts
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#95 - 2013-11-21 17:06:20 UTC
Saeka Tyr wrote:
Nice! Will have to test that...

In the spirit of improving fleet management there's two things folks would like to see. Could you tell us the feasibility of them?

* Jumping from watchlist.

Blackops and titans can be added to watchlists, but when they open the bridge you have to click on the ship itself in space/overview. This is annoying and can be error prone. Using the watchlist would solve this but is not currently possible.
As of today, this is now possible

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Izzy Ankhavees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#96 - 2013-11-24 03:21:41 UTC
My takes on fleet, sorry if I repeat what someone else already mentioned but:

- Either disable the pie menu on fleet window or put in place a better timing. Many times you are moving a person by draging an the process is halted by the ui showing the pie menu and the person line goes back and you have to do it again. If the fleet is small you barely have that problem because you usually dont need to move a name over a big distance.

- In the EVE MENU, split the option of auto refusing chat invites and fleet invites. As of now, you mark auto refuse chat invites and the char also auto refuses fleet invites;

- If we are to encourage PuF (Pick Up Fleets) as it suggests you do because you can open fleet publically, it would be a nice idea to the FC to be able to restrict the public acceptance by other filters besides standings, and/or the ability to have a "leave fleet on docking";

On a side note regarding one very disturbing post, I dont know about you, but I have been using the fleet interface from a long time and while I mentioned it can be better, it still better than most gang interfaces over the major MMOs. In terms of usability and features, it can look bad to some but despite minor tweaks, most of the arguments on how it is "broken" comes from lack of understanding on how to use it.

[i]"Perfect crimes do not exist, for to be a crime, it must be proven." "Make the body count unacceptable to ensure your own safety." "Basic rule of covert ops: let someone else do your dirty work.[/i]"
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#97 - 2013-11-24 11:06:35 UTC
Izzy Ankhavees wrote:
My takes on fleet, sorry if I repeat what someone else already mentioned but:

- Either disable the pie menu on fleet window or put in place a better timing. Many times you are moving a person by draging an the process is halted by the ui showing the pie menu and the person line goes back and you have to do it again. If the fleet is small you barely have that problem because you usually dont need to move a name over a big distance.

- In the EVE MENU, split the option of auto refusing chat invites and fleet invites. As of now, you mark auto refuse chat invites and the char also auto refuses fleet invites;

- If we are to encourage PuF (Pick Up Fleets) as it suggests you do because you can open fleet publically, it would be a nice idea to the FC to be able to restrict the public acceptance by other filters besides standings, and/or the ability to have a "leave fleet on docking";

On a side note regarding one very disturbing post, I dont know about you, but I have been using the fleet interface from a long time and while I mentioned it can be better, it still better than most gang interfaces over the major MMOs. In terms of usability and features, it can look bad to some but despite minor tweaks, most of the arguments on how it is "broken" comes from lack of understanding on how to use it.

Thanks for your feeback, these are some good points :)

Regarding the Radial Menu... if the default delay time does not suit you well, you can increase the delay slightly by changing the settings in the ESC menu (I think under General). Hope that helps Big smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Lair Osen
#98 - 2013-11-24 12:34:11 UTC
Hey CCP Karkur, is there any way we can get a hotkey that we can hold down to stop the radial menu appearing temporarily?
Izzy Ankhavees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2013-11-24 14:27:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Izzy Ankhavees
CCP karkur wrote:
Izzy Ankhavees wrote:
My takes on fleet, sorry if I repeat what someone else already mentioned but:

- Either disable the pie menu on fleet window or put in place a better timing. Many times you are moving a person by draging an the process is halted by the ui showing the pie menu and the person line goes back and you have to do it again. If the fleet is small you barely have that problem because you usually dont need to move a name over a big distance.

- In the EVE MENU, split the option of auto refusing chat invites and fleet invites. As of now, you mark auto refuse chat invites and the char also auto refuses fleet invites;

- If we are to encourage PuF (Pick Up Fleets) as it suggests you do because you can open fleet publically, it would be a nice idea to the FC to be able to restrict the public acceptance by other filters besides standings, and/or the ability to have a "leave fleet on docking";

On a side note regarding one very disturbing post, I dont know about you, but I have been using the fleet interface from a long time and while I mentioned it can be better, it still better than most gang interfaces over the major MMOs. In terms of usability and features, it can look bad to some but despite minor tweaks, most of the arguments on how it is "broken" comes from lack of understanding on how to use it.

Thanks for your feeback, these are some good points :)

Regarding the Radial Menu... if the default delay time does not suit you well, you can increase the delay slightly by changing the settings in the ESC menu (I think under General). Hope that helps Big smile


If you have many squads and have the misfortune of having to move someone from the first squad to the last, it takes an unfashionable time in the pie menu delay to avoid it happening. When you cannot auto arrange your squad formation and usually make public fleets, that happens more often than one want to disable or delay the pie menu. SPecially because when handling large fleets, you also want the pie menu to be quickly responsible. That is the problem. If I needed each feature spaced by large intervals of not concurring them, I could only disable one while using the other. The problem is in real situations you wont be making testing on the fleet interface and that is it, rather you will be moving members, broadcasting, moving cargo, and so on, and that requires both fleet and pie menu to be responsive asap, therefore, they cant be mutually conflictive in optimization of time.
The real killer would be once you start dragging a name, the pie menu doesnt activate, and once you are not moving your mouse more than a couple milimeters, the draging does not activate, but I dont know how that could impact in the code.

[i]"Perfect crimes do not exist, for to be a crime, it must be proven." "Make the body count unacceptable to ensure your own safety." "Basic rule of covert ops: let someone else do your dirty work.[/i]"