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Nightmare l4 Sniper fit
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-10-30 21:33:13 UTC
Okay I'm going to put my 2 cents and you can take it for what it's worth.

Using a Nightmare for a sniper boat is a bad idea because it has no range bonus... Ships used for sniping generally have a range bonus. Yes you can use long range crystals but this means very poor DPS.... I don't know about you but if I'm going to spend a billion plus for a ship it shouldn't suck.

Consider the Paladin after Rubicon. Yes it's not for 20 days but that's not forever. The Paladin will fit 4 tachs, have a hell of a tank, have a MJD bonus, and a range bonus!
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-10-30 22:02:57 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Locutus Mind wrote:
Thanks for the responses,

I have just finally gotten into a NM from my previous l4 ship the Abaddon. So it feels really different in terms of killing things quickly with the NM. Where the Abby takes her sweet time, and can tank forever at the expense of lower damage

Abbadon

8 MPII

4 Cap rechargers

3 CCC's

2 LAR II
1 E Adapt Harden
2 Rat Spec Hardeners
1 Cap relay
1 DCII

Now the NM is polar opposite to that as I am used to armour tanking and doing lower damage,

but i will try out Arcosian fit as it seems like it can tank and output dps well


Thanks for the posts.



Your Abaddon takes her sweet time because you don't have any heat sinks in the lows or tracking computers in the mids. Without the heat sinks you lose about 300 DPS and about 15 km less optimal range without scripted tracking computers.


The nano pump helps the one LAR work better and if you want more tank go for a Ammatar Navy LAR. They're about 110 mil in Jita but it's worth it.



730 gun DPS at 58 km optimal range with Scorch


[Abaddon, Missions]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I
Eyana Starstruck
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-10-30 22:15:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Eyana Starstruck
IIshira wrote:
Okay I'm going to put my 2 cents and you can take it for what it's worth.

Using a Nightmare for a sniper boat is a bad idea because it has no range bonus... Ships used for sniping generally have a range bonus. Yes you can use long range crystals but this means very poor DPS.... I don't know about you but if I'm going to spend a billion plus for a ship it shouldn't suck.

Consider the Paladin after Rubicon. Yes it's not for 20 days but that's not forever. The Paladin will fit 4 tachs, have a hell of a tank, have a MJD bonus, and a range bonus!


Hm so are you really saying that all the pilots commanding NM's and fc's wanting NM's for sniper roles got it wrong and that there are better ships that they havent thought of? Big smile

A sniping NM has 718 gun dps at 100km range, I wouldnt call that bad at all... Big smile

Of course paladin will be a better choice when Rubicon comes but it also means he needs to probably spend like 40 days on training time to be able to fly one, rarely people have battleship skill at level 5 cause it takes 30d+ to get. Big smile
Locutus Mind
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-10-30 22:20:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Locutus Mind
lol
dumb question is it possible for a NM to crash a frig under 10k?

Probably would need great tracking, and luck

..... What a pulse mare :S
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2013-10-30 22:25:21 UTC
Jack Mayhem wrote:
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
Jack Mayhem wrote:
Why would you ever use large beams when you can use tachyons? Some advice is terrible.



I think you are the only person that could possibly misunderstand this but to clarify what I meant was beams as in beam guns, aka long range laser guns... To which class, who would have guessed, tachyons belong... (Tachyon BEAM Laser II)

Edit

Nope I was wrong, you even got a like for that post, seems that another person didn't understand the simplicity... Or did you give it to yourself from another account?


Don't reinvent the wheel. Tachyons are shortened as tachs, not beams. It's common eve dictionary.



Doesn't change the fact that tachs are beam lasers.
Eyana Starstruck
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-10-30 22:33:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Eyana Starstruck
Locutus Mind wrote:
lol
dumb question is it possible for a NM to crash a frig under 10k?

Probably would need great tracking, and luck

..... What a pulse mare :S


Hardly anything bs gun size can crash a frig under 10km, maybe a double web vindicator with a close to 0 transversal... :D
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-10-30 22:50:42 UTC
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Okay I'm going to put my 2 cents and you can take it for what it's worth.

Using a Nightmare for a sniper boat is a bad idea because it has no range bonus... Ships used for sniping generally have a range bonus. Yes you can use long range crystals but this means very poor DPS.... I don't know about you but if I'm going to spend a billion plus for a ship it shouldn't suck.

Consider the Paladin after Rubicon. Yes it's not for 20 days but that's not forever. The Paladin will fit 4 tachs, have a hell of a tank, have a MJD bonus, and a range bonus!


Hm so are you really saying that all the pilots commanding NM's and fc's wanting NM's for sniper roles got it wrong and that there are better ships that they havent thought of? Big smile

A sniping NM has 718 gun dps at 100km range, I wouldnt call that bad at all... Big smile

Of course paladin will be a better choice when Rubicon comes but it also means he needs to probably spend like 40 days on training time to be able to fly one, rarely people have battleship skill at level 5 cause it takes 30d+ to get. Big smile



Are we talking about PVP or missions? PVP has many more considerations than just max DPS so just because it's a fleet doctrine doesn't mean it's good for missions.


A Nightmare that does 718 gun dps at 100km... Shocked Please post the fit.


It takes 26-34 days for BS 4-5 depending on your attributes. If you're flying a Nightmare I would hope you would have it at 5 or working to it since it gives you a 7.5% bonus to tracking. It's well worth it IMO if you want to max your mission completion times and Rubicon is 20 days away so Big smile
Eyana Starstruck
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-10-31 00:29:56 UTC
Sorry but why would you max out tracking over damage for a sniping fit?

A standard faction heat sinked NM with a maxed out pilot with 5% implants does that much dps at 100km range with imp navy standard ammo...

Uhm you forget the time to get marauder skill up as well to level 5 to get the same damage as NM at bs 5...
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-10-31 03:13:59 UTC
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
Sorry but why would you max out tracking over damage for a sniping fit?

A standard faction heat sinked NM with a maxed out pilot with 5% implants does that much dps at 100km range with imp navy standard ammo...

Uhm you forget the time to get marauder skill up as well to level 5 to get the same damage as NM at bs 5...


I wasn't referring to maxing out tracking. You said "Hm so are you really saying that all the pilots commanding NM's...." and I just asked if you were referring to doctrine PVP fleets or mission ships because what could work awesome for a PVP battle might not in a mission.


Fair enough with two +5 implants it does 718 DPS at 96 km optimal . I totally forgot about implants in EFT but I do have them in my Amarr clone. Also fair enough with the Marauder skill to 5 for max damage. It's worth it for the damage and repair amount bonus IMO.



I went on the test server to check out the Paladin. I'm getting 891 DPS at 96 km with Xray and 980 DPS at 80 km with Gamma.

I can't test the Bastion module for almost five days but if it takes that 80 km to 96 km that means the Paladin will do 262 DPS more than the Nightmare at this range. Even without Bastion it does 173 DPS more. I didn't have a 4th faction heat sink on the test server so I used three faction and one T2. I'm guessing it's probably only a few DPS less due to stacking penalties.

The Paladin may require a bit more time invested but the bottom line is it will do more DPS at range. The Nightmare may still beat it close in due to the tracking bonus. An additional 173-262 DPS might not sound like much but it could mean having to fire an extra volley at targets.

Also it has a 70% reduction to MJD reactivation delay.

Don't get me wrong I love the Nightmare but with the Rubicon Marauder buffs the Paladin will be the better choice for range.
Eyana Starstruck
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-10-31 09:48:35 UTC
I agree that marauders will be better when using MJD sniping tactic with bastion mode on. I am just saying that until then he might as well have fun with NM, people can always trade it back in or use it for incursions or something when and if they want to switch to a marauder...
Locutus Mind
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2013-10-31 14:40:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Locutus Mind
Hey I just tried the nightmare last night. Made Worked amazing

Only downside was that I was only able to carry 20 cap boosters

which can take me through two heavy tanking missions.

I do have to say the isk invested is well worth the rewards you get for blitzing l4's


onto lvl 5 soon with a Pally :D
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-10-31 15:33:50 UTC
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
I agree that marauders will be better when using MJD sniping tactic with bastion mode on. I am just saying that until then he might as well have fun with NM, people can always trade it back in or use it for incursions or something when and if they want to switch to a marauder...


Agreed if he wants to use the Nightmare for the 18 days or even after there's nothing wrong with that. I prefer my Nighmare currently but once Rubicon goes live I'm going for the Paladin. Who knows I might get bored with destroying NPC rats at range and go back to my Nightmare.

To the OP why are you burning through so many cap boosters at 100km? Are you fighting Sansha?
Locutus Mind
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-10-31 16:01:07 UTC
No I am fighting up close with IMF 40 KM range.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2013-10-31 16:39:24 UTC
When I sniper fit my NM, I often don't have a booster at all.

Mids:
1 deadspace invuln/2 specific hardeners
1 MJD
3-4 Tracking computers 3 optimal scripted
1 Sebo

Lows:
4 heat sinks
1 DC

Highs:
4x tachs
2x DLAs (faction)

Rigs:
EM ward II
CDF II
Locus coordinator II

Drones:
3x faction sentry

The MJD is not stopped by scramming frigs, and from 100km, they pop easily.
The locus coordinator boosts optimal more than a range scripted faction TC (20%), and is rather cheap.

Multi gets ~51km optimal, I don't need to use worse than UV
Eyana Starstruck
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-10-31 16:55:37 UTC
I dont see the reason why pally with mjd wouldnt be used in close range as well? xD I intend to use him as pulse and just jump straight into groups and make em vanish under pulse lazor powah! :D
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-10-31 17:02:45 UTC
Locutus Mind wrote:
No I am fighting up close with IMF 40 KM range.


Yea that's what I do with mine... The DPS is awesome and the tracking bonus is nice... With two tracking computers in the mids I can instapop frigates if they're at least 20 km away.
Moe Foeker
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-11-01 14:24:28 UTC
Pulse Nightmare would be your best friend.

With better tracking and dps up close you can focus on cruisers and anything greater (Scorch @ 55km) and let drones take care of anything smaller.

This will also allow you to fit a stronger tank, and maintain top dps, since you are concerned about your tankability.

There is more than one way to the force.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-11-01 14:42:52 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Moe Foeker wrote:
Pulse Nightmare would be your best friend.

With better tracking and dps up close you can focus on cruisers and anything greater (Scorch @ 55km) and let drones take care of anything smaller.

This will also allow you to fit a stronger tank, and maintain top dps, since you are concerned about your tankability.

There is more than one way to the force.


I might try this. The thing I disliked about pulse was the range was very short unless you use Scorch but then the DPS goes down. Maybe use an AB to burn in close and use MF?

Do you have a pulse fitting you like?
Moe Foeker
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-11-01 15:06:46 UTC
4 MP
2 DA


2 Rat Spec Hards
X Shield Booster
AB
faction Invuln
2 TC
Cap Booster

4 Faction HS
1 faction TE

Energy Elu
Shield or Cap rig pending on your skills

Scorch is your friend.

Drones are your minions.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-11-01 15:27:31 UTC
Moe Foeker wrote:
4 MP
2 DA


2 Rat Spec Hards
X Shield Booster
AB
faction Invuln
2 TC
Cap Booster

4 Faction HS
1 faction TE

Energy Elu
Shield or Cap rig pending on your skills

Scorch is your friend.

Drones are your minions.


Thanks I will try this when I get a chance to get on Eve. RL kills my Eve time LOL. This is almost the same as my tach fit with the AB and invuln replaced by a SBA and I forget what else.
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