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OK, going on this, how about if we ask CCP to keep Naga as is w/ current bonus's & add the 8 launcher hardpoints but with no bonus's, no CPU/PG reduction for SML.

This way it remains a Large Hybrid Turret boat capable of fitting HMLs or HALs as an interesting alt for the Drake!

Wouldn't this be reasonable?

.....


The problem with this is nobody would be able to fly them day to day. They would be useless for all but 1 thing, completely worthless against any subcapital targets (except maybe Marauders hahaha) and require a bizarre amount of training to even fit the weapons (which cost more than the ship hull...each). Believe it or not, most people never get to kill a capital ship.

Then the Caldari pilots are functionally ******** and willfully ignorant. Here's how the breakdown actually works assuming competent non-morons:

Amarr train lasers and missiles
Gallente train hybrids and drones
Caldari train hybrids and missiles
Minmatar train projectiles and missiles

If you really want to enjoy EVE Online: A Complex Game, you train some of everything, since even beyond these general patterns each race has certain ships that require additional skillsets (Gallente / Minmatar need to train shield and armor tanking skills, for example. Certain Amarr boats make extensive use of drones. And then there are the pirate ships, which just use random mixes of everything.

Sometimes, you have to train things. Deal with it.

That would be interesting, but it would be weird; it is possible, even viable, to put medium guns on the other new 3TBC though. I would be happier than I am now, but there was really something special about having a Torpedo Drake to me. It's something I have been specifically looking forward to since the new BC were announced, and to not have it now seems a crying shame to me.

Plus: HML were actually harder to fit than Siege launchers were with the bonuses. So there is also that.

I find it sad that the typical Gallente pilot, with zero Caldari ship command skills, can fit and fly a naga faster than the typical Caldari pilot.

This is what I think about the new ships:
The Gallente ship need to have some drone bonuses and the Caldari need missile bonuses.

That is all.

No, it's nothing to do with the torp velocity.

The problem was the explosion radius of 450 m and the explosion velocity of ~108 m/s, requiring usage of a painter and web to apply good damage to its tier 3 counterparts, and the lack of a torp damage bonus which meant that it has less raw damage than any other tier 3 BC.

On the proper BS scale, torps are basically okay, because they work well against fat, slow BS bricks. But these tier 3 BCs are intended to be used more as skirmish platforms - if they go head to head with a BS then they'll just die horribly. As such, torpedos are a terrible weapon for the Naga - a torp Naga can't survive a close-range engagement against a BS, and it can't apply much torp DPS to smaller targets.

Against fellow t3 BCs, the torp Naga was hopeless. It had the lowest raw DPS of any, lacking a torp damage bonus. It needed to get into web range to apply that poor DPS, which it found difficult being the slowest. It needed at least one painter to apply its poor raw DPS too. The result was a slow ship that was only effective inside web range and had relatively poor DPS even when it somehow managed to apply its EFT maximum.

It was a nonsense, a pointless ship, one utterly outclassed by every other t3 BC at close range and at long range. It made the Talos look good, that's how bad it was. It was also terrible at PVE, for the same reasons of poor application of damage against elite frigates and cruisers. I am astonished that there is so much misinformed, clueless carebear whinging - it sounds like that idiotic missile whine thread after the QR missile boost, dozens of pages full of carebears whinging that they'd had to change their L4 fit, unable to comprehend that missile PVP had just been massively boosted.

The rail Naga has a substantial DPS advantage over every other t3 BC beyond ~80 km. It is a useful ship that will be flown; the torp Naga was a pointless embarrassment.

Simple answer: because Caldari Pilots use missiles and would actually like something other than the freaking drake to fly.

Gallente pilots train Hybrids. Caldari Pilots train missiles.

Double quick missiles means 100% to torpedo velocity. Is that per level?

Throw that on top of another 50% and you now have long range torps but still will have a slow explosion velocity.. If you increase both you will have an overpowered ship because it'll be painted and abused to where these can hit cruisers at range for high DPS.

Do you see how knife-edge it is now?