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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Bumping before logoff

Author
Sally Enviere
#1 - 2013-10-30 17:32:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Sally Enviere
I know that bumping is one of the funniest things in EVE for most PvP preferring pilots, and this is fine. Although there are many tricks based on this. I think one of them is really unfair.

If you get bumped, it counts as an issued move command, which means that it prevents safe logoff, and if you do exit from the client, there is a 1 minute timer that still allows attackers to engage, and the bumped player is unable to take any actions to even be able to avoid it, or move, the best he can do is to fight, but if an Orca gets caught like this, then no countermoves can be made.

My suggestion is not to count bumping as a moving command, so if the bumped player wants to logoff, he has to hit the stop ship command, and let's say after the stop command, in 10-20 seconds he should be able to start the 30 second safe logoff timer.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#2 - 2013-10-30 19:45:51 UTC
Sally Enviere wrote:
I know that bumping is one of the funniest things in EVE for most PvP preferring pilots, and this is fine. Although there are many tricks based on this. I think one of them is really unfair.

If you get bumped, it counts as an issued move command, which means that it prevents safe logoff, and if you do exit from the client, there is a 1 minute timer that still allows attackers to engage, and the bumped player is unable to take any actions to even be able to avoid it, or move, the best he can do is to fight, but if an Orca gets caught like this, then no countermoves can be made.

My suggestion is not to count bumping as a moving command, so if the bumped player wants to logoff, he has to hit the stop ship command, and let's say after the stop command, in 10-20 seconds he should be able to start the 30 second safe logoff timer.


IMO, bumping should not disrupt the safe log off feature.

Sally Enviere
#3 - 2013-10-30 19:52:08 UTC
Exactly... That's what I mean
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-10-30 20:19:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
This seems reasonable to me. If someone is in a position to bump you they are also in a position to shoot you. Shooting someone is the preferred way to stop them from safely logging off IMO.

+1
Gnadolin
Space Pioneers
#5 - 2013-10-31 06:58:26 UTC
You can not logg off safely while beeing targetet either, so as lonk they dont bump you with freighters or Capsules it wont make a difference, because whoever bumps you, can just target you to prevent safe logg off anyways.
Anthar Thebess
#6 - 2013-10-31 07:42:54 UTC
Unless you are trying to logout a super sitting in other corp pos - and few neut machariels land near you.
Sally Enviere
#7 - 2013-10-31 14:01:45 UTC
well then bumping many times should distrupt targeting for 1 min or something like this, I think you all pepps who read it (including the develeoper(s)) can clearly see that it needs some workaround, because this causes imbalance in gameplay.
Darxar Gardallion
Amalgamation Limited
The Amalgamation Initiative
#8 - 2013-11-11 02:49:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Darxar Gardallion
Bumping in general needs to be addressed, more specifically with regards to timers and combat, and especially concerning the use of bumping prior to a war dec going live where said bumping is done to allow the eventual kill to be done in hisec and counted as a war kill.

But, setting all the above aside, is there any reality in the way bumping is working?

If a frigate flies into an orca, let alone a nearly full orca, is it realistic to think that the frigate could bump the orca enough to cause it to not be able to warp, let alone not just explode on impact with the orca (or bounce off the orca if you want to make the shield work like a rubber ball) and perhaps do some minimal amount of damage to the orca on explosion (or do nothing to the Orca while the frigate bounces away thousands of meters if you want to use the bouncy ball shields)?

Thanks!
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#9 - 2013-11-11 04:08:43 UTC
-- Bump --

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#10 - 2013-11-11 04:35:31 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Sally Enviere wrote:
If you get bumped, it counts as an issued move command, which means that it prevents safe logoff


Doesn't happen.

Quote:
My suggestion is not to count bumping as a moving command, so if the bumped player wants to logoff, he has to hit the stop ship command, and let's say after the stop command, in 10-20 seconds he should be able to start the 30 second safe logoff timer.



It doesn't count as a move command. Safe logoff works just fine while being bumped.

Just tested it myself.


So... I guess that settles that.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#11 - 2013-11-11 07:20:03 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Darxar Gardallion wrote:
If a frigate flies into an orca, let alone a nearly full orca, is it realistic to think that the frigate could bump the orca enough to cause it to not be able to warp, let alone not just explode on impact with the orca (or bounce off the orca if you want to make the shield work like a rubber ball) and perhaps do some minimal amount of damage to the orca on explosion (or do nothing to the Orca while the frigate bounces away thousands of meters if you want to use the bouncy ball shields)?



1) Yes. That's how Elastic collisions work. Look up the masses of common bump ships with MWDs on, and compare them to a Freighter or Orca's mass. Now compare their momentum (the Bump ships like SFIs and Machs tend to have much greater momentum than the targets).
Also, compare a tugboat to an oil tanker and think whether a stationary oil tanker could set and keep a course if a tugboat was trying to push it off it (hint: no, it couldn't).

In this, unlike many other circumstances, size is not everything.


2) Collision damage allows either:
a) Ganking without CONCORD intervention, or
b) Ganking by invocation of CONCORD.
Take your pick.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Mag's
Azn Empire
#12 - 2013-11-11 08:48:28 UTC
So why do we need this thread again?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Carebears Countdown 5-4-3-2-1
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-11-21 07:16:18 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Darxar Gardallion wrote:
If a frigate flies into an orca, let alone a nearly full orca, is it realistic to think that the frigate could bump the orca enough to cause it to not be able to warp, let alone not just explode on impact with the orca (or bounce off the orca if you want to make the shield work like a rubber ball) and perhaps do some minimal amount of damage to the orca on explosion (or do nothing to the Orca while the frigate bounces away thousands of meters if you want to use the bouncy ball shields)?



1) Yes. That's how Elastic collisions work. Look up the masses of common bump ships with MWDs on, and compare them to a Freighter or Orca's mass. Now compare their momentum (the Bump ships like SFIs and Machs tend to have much greater momentum than the targets).
Also, compare a tugboat to an oil tanker and think whether a stationary oil tanker could set and keep a course if a tugboat was trying to push it off it (hint: no, it couldn't).

In this, unlike many other circumstances, size is not everything.


2) Collision damage allows either:
a) Ganking without CONCORD intervention, or
b) Ganking by invocation of CONCORD.
Take your pick.
Agreed.

That is why they need to remove bumping. I know it sounds crazy, but let the ships just pass through eachother. IF they are engaged in combat (i.e. someone has taken a shot, tackled, etc.) then the ships should become solid, able to bump, and damage based on logic.