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What's with the Secrecy?

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Novenas Heresy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-10-30 16:08:59 UTC
Forgive me if this is a stupid question that has been answered before, but why do we have TOS rule #18:

Quote:
You may not publish private communications from CCP, their agents or representatives or EVE Online volunteers without authorization.


EvE is the only MMO I've ever played, but is this a common rule in other MMO's? Wouldn't an open and transparent decision making process be beneficial? Of course there are people out there that will look for any excuse to get out of being punished, but surely the benefits outweigh the costs.

Only in this past week we've seen a decision made in the whole SOMER blink RMT debate, with Katerina Reid stating that CCP has communicated to her that she can't offer ISK rewards for GTC referrals any more, but she's unable to go into any detail because of rule #18. Then there's Astecus losing his high sec Archon and getting a 2 week ban for (and I'm sure I'm simplifying here) *asking* if he was allowed to shoot NOCO's with it, and again he's not permitted to tell us about what the GM involved said in what seems to be a bizarre decision.

I believe that while CCP as a company has to back up their GM staff when it comes to helping them enforce the rules, and remembering that rules have to be sufficiently pliable to be able to cover unforeseen circumstances, shouldn't the GM's be held to a certain standard when performing their duties?

Quote:
Whatever hysteria exists is inflamed by mystery, suspicion and secrecy. Hard and exact facts will cool it.
Elia Kazan


Seems to me a great deal of the conflict between CCP and its user base could be done away with in one fell swoop if rule #18 went the way of the dodo...
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-10-30 16:12:36 UTC
First!
oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-10-30 16:13:40 UTC  |  Edited by: oOReikaOo Michiko
SECOND I HOPE

*edit* sweeeet, reserved

This thread is now about ponies... IN SPACE!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSDNPFCPfY
Novenas Heresy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-10-30 16:14:04 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
First!


Do people still do "first"? Is that still a thing?
Lord LazyGhost
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-10-30 16:15:54 UTC
I belive it will boil down to his 2wek ban being becasue he got him self flaged. IE he must have broke one of the rules govening caps in highsec to get him self flaged. Thats what the 2 week ban will be for
Myrissa Kistel
Planetary Logistics
#6 - 2013-10-30 16:17:56 UTC
Its not like case law. They don't have the time and don't need the players going on susch and such date you let this situation go and mine is sort of like that with a bit of this GM ticker here. By keeping it secret they can handle each situation on its own merits.

Thats my theory.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-10-30 16:21:16 UTC
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
SECOND I HOPE
Back onto your treadmill, woman!
Maybe that'll help you finish first some day.


*giggles* xD
Novenas Heresy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-10-30 16:21:49 UTC
Lord LazyGhost wrote:
I belive it will boil down to his 2wek ban being becasue he got him self flaged. IE he must have broke one of the rules govening caps in highsec to get him self flaged. Thats what the 2 week ban will be for


He could have looted another players can, that would give him a suspect flag wouldn't it? He couldn't have aggressed anyone, did you see the fit? http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20212352
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-10-30 16:25:18 UTC
Novenas Heresy wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
First!


Do people still do "first"? Is that still a thing?

Haven't done this for a long time and i don't see it happening any more.
I was rushing through options and this was the first to trigger a bodily response.
Novenas Heresy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-10-30 16:28:18 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Novenas Heresy wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
First!


Do people still do "first"? Is that still a thing?

Haven't done this for a long time and i don't see it happening any more.
I was rushing through options and this was the first to trigger a bodily response.


I think the appropriate response in today's EvE is "In before lock and ban!" :P
oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-10-30 16:29:37 UTC
Novenas Heresy wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Novenas Heresy wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
First!


Do people still do "first"? Is that still a thing?

Haven't done this for a long time and i don't see it happening any more.
I was rushing through options and this was the first to trigger a bodily response.


I think the appropriate response in today's EvE is "In before lock and ban!" :P


or "This thread is now about kittens"**

** can also be ponies with a picture to mylittlepony

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSDNPFCPfY
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#12 - 2013-10-30 16:29:44 UTC  |  Edited by: War Kitten
Novenas Heresy wrote:

Seems to me a great deal of the conflict between CCP and its user base could be done away withgenerated rapidly in one fell swoop if rule #18 went the way of the dodo...


FYP

Did someone mention kittens?

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-10-30 16:31:09 UTC
Novenas Heresy wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Novenas Heresy wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
First!


Do people still do "first"? Is that still a thing?

Haven't done this for a long time and i don't see it happening any more.
I was rushing through options and this was the first to trigger a bodily response.


I think the appropriate response in today's EvE is "In before lock and ban!" :P
If by "appropriate" you mean something connected to social rules then i will happily do the very opposite.

Also... as the famous opeea star i am not ... imagine this in the voice of Pavarotti .....

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
beforethe

(deep voice)

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCK!
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#14 - 2013-10-30 16:42:12 UTC
Novenas Heresy wrote:
Forgive me if this is a stupid question that has been answered before, but why do we have TOS rule #18:


CCP does not want players comparing notes publicly, otherwise they would have to address how irregular and unbalanced some of their decisions and policies are. CCP must maintain the perception they are in control and player concerns are addressed fairly and equally, even when it is demonstrated that is not the case..

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
RAW23
#15 - 2013-10-30 16:44:25 UTC  |  Edited by: RAW23
The reason is in order to minimise accountability for their actions. GMs, in particular, rarely know what they are talking about in the first pass of a petition (which they tend to respond to without research and off the top of their heads to maximise speed) and it would be really embarrassing if their ignorance of the game they run were publicly displayed. If it were permissible to make communication public then CCP and its employees would have a far harder time backtracking or acting in a hypocritical or arbitrary manner because it would be much easier to compare their current statements with historical ones. Banning publication of communications just gives them more room to make mistakes, really. I'm not sure that is entirely a bad thing but it is often used to cover up pretty gross errors.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#16 - 2013-10-30 16:46:20 UTC
On the other hand, it could simply be because it's none of our business. Blink

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-10-30 16:52:16 UTC
Jayne Fillon
#18 - 2013-10-30 16:58:26 UTC
Ironically, this thread itself is in violation of forum rules 10 and 11.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-10-30 17:03:21 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
On the other hand, it could simply be because it's none of our business. Blink


Considering the things not allowed to be discussed affect the game of players beyond the communication, clearly some of what is in some emails to the devs from one person is our business mate.

Anyway, as stated they are trying to avoid accountability...kind of reminds me of Richard Nixon's protestation, "When the President does it, that means it is not illegal" Yeah...we all know how that gem of logic worked out for him....Roll
Na Und
Galactronics
#20 - 2013-10-30 17:05:48 UTC
Short answer to your question is that EVE's forums are littered with people whining about this or that.
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