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Planetary, Lunar, and Station Orbits

Author
Electro522
Severasse Industrial Securities
#1 - 2013-10-29 18:47:59 UTC
I am not sure if this has been posted before, for I did try looking for it and found nothing. Also, Im not sure if this has already been implemented for planets, and Im just not aware of it.

Since EVE does work in real time (except when TiDi gets turned on), all orbits should be realistic (i.e. dont have Planet X have an orbit of a few days).

The planetary orbits would just be an aesthetic change, and probably wont have much of an impact on anything, considering that some of the orbits would probably last longer then the game would exist (being around 100 years or more).

Lunar and Station orbits may actually affect things, such as bookmarks. You warp to one of your bookmarks that was placed around a moon, but you come to find out that the moon is on the other side of the planet.

Stations and POSs would have orbits as well, but, if you are to warp to either, you would automatically match it's orbit, that way supercaps can stay INSIDE the POS bubbles (although, that would be an interesting thing not to have, and make piloting supercaps far more risky).

Please note that orbits would only affect bookmarks that are made by clicking "save current location". By doing that, you are saving the EXACT location of where your ship is, meaning that stations, moons, and planets (if you wait long enough) can move away from your bookmark. This could lead to some very interesting safe spots being used.

Stargates could also have their own orbits, but they would have less of an impact then planetary orbits would have, I suspect.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#2 - 2013-10-29 19:09:20 UTC

This idea has been posted many times before.

First off, calculated the orbits of celestials would be mathematically tedious.

Second, and more relevant, having to recreate bookmarks around stations, gates, moons, belts, etc... would be tedious busywork for players that do so.

And this is done for why? for the sake of realism?
I'm sorry, in a universe where you play an immortal spaceship pilot, that realism must take a back seat to game play aesthetics. And having to make new bookmarks every day, or every week, or every month, for the regions I live in, would be painstakingly tedious!

Please... no!
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2013-10-29 19:12:28 UTC
Well, you just broke every. single. bookmark.

Congratulations, you've caused extreme misery for tens of thousands of people for no reason!
Electro522
Severasse Industrial Securities
#4 - 2013-10-29 19:20:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Electro522
You guys misunderstood me. This would only apply to bookmarks that are made by clicking "save current location". If you are to create a bookmark by saving the location of a certain object, say a POS, asteroid, station, etc., then you would still be able to warp to that object.

Also, I figured this had been posted before. Its hard to post an idea that hasnt already been thought of.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#5 - 2013-10-29 19:24:45 UTC
Electro522 wrote:
You guys misunderstood me. This would only apply to bookmarks that are made by clicking "save current location". If you are to create a bookmark by saving the location of a certain object, say a POS, asteroid, station, etc., then you would still be able to warp to that object.

Also, I figured this had been posted before. Its hard to post an idea that hasnt already been thought of.


You don't bookmark the asteroid belt... you bookmark a roid, a wreck, or a spot off the astroid belt
You don't bookmark a gate... you use the "save current location" to bookmark a spot 200 km's off the gate, so you can warp there and see whats happening at the gate without being in immediate danger from the ships on the gate.
You often don't bookmark the POS... you bookmark 250 km's away from the POS, so you can warp there and monitor what is happening inside the POS.

Bookmarking celestials is how you end up in a warp bubble.... which closely follows with the destruction of your ship!
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-10-29 19:25:08 UTC
Electro522 wrote:
You guys misunderstood me. This would only apply to bookmarks that are made by clicking "save current location".

I.e. every relevant bookmark.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#7 - 2013-10-29 19:32:18 UTC
The vast majority of all bookmarks are "Save current location", gate pings, pings around stations, POS, moons, complexes, safespots, tacticals, offgrids, etc.

Orbits around planets/moons are not problematic because they are in a geo-stationary orbit and don't need to change the position around their gravity well. It's a question however when all the orbit progression changes are supposed to be calculated. Downtime with a daily orbit progression would be the only remotely feasible choice. It would also be necessary to determine the orbit speed and direction, which are all factors that make the calculations complex.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Angeal MacNova
LankTech
#8 - 2013-10-29 19:54:19 UTC
Orbits could not only be possible, but could also have no impact on the book marking system.

Random safe spots set up within the system simply wouldn't move and really wouldn't have to.

As for book marks at orbiting bodies, it's the "pocket" of space (and anything in it) that orbits. So if you warp to, and sit at, a station, you are within the orbiting pocket of space and so you too would orbit with the station. Undock book marks, being within the space that moves, would continue to function as undock book marks. Same goes for POSs, Gates, etc.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#9 - 2013-10-29 19:56:24 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Orbits could not only be possible, but could also have no impact on the book marking system.

Random safe spots set up within the system simply wouldn't move and really wouldn't have to.

As for book marks at orbiting bodies, it's the "pocket" of space (and anything in it) that orbits. So if you warp to, and sit at, a station, you are within the orbiting pocket of space and so you too would orbit with the station. Undock book marks, being within the space that moves, would continue to function as undock book marks. Same goes for POSs, Gates, etc.


That would exclude offgrid spots around objects off the grid as well as offgrid undock spots.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Angeal MacNova
LankTech
#10 - 2013-10-29 19:58:09 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Orbits could not only be possible, but could also have no impact on the book marking system.

Random safe spots set up within the system simply wouldn't move and really wouldn't have to.

As for book marks at orbiting bodies, it's the "pocket" of space (and anything in it) that orbits. So if you warp to, and sit at, a station, you are within the orbiting pocket of space and so you too would orbit with the station. Undock book marks, being within the space that moves, would continue to function as undock book marks. Same goes for POSs, Gates, etc.


That would exclude offgrid spots around objects off the grid as well as offgrid undock spots.


You assumed the "area of space" is limited to 'on grid'.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#11 - 2013-10-29 20:17:42 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Orbits could not only be possible, but could also have no impact on the book marking system.

Random safe spots set up within the system simply wouldn't move and really wouldn't have to.

As for book marks at orbiting bodies, it's the "pocket" of space (and anything in it) that orbits. So if you warp to, and sit at, a station, you are within the orbiting pocket of space and so you too would orbit with the station. Undock book marks, being within the space that moves, would continue to function as undock book marks. Same goes for POSs, Gates, etc.


That would exclude offgrid spots around objects off the grid as well as offgrid undock spots.


You assumed the "area of space" is limited to 'on grid'.


And suddenly my "aligned" bookmarks are no longer aligned. I have lots of bookmarks setup for flyby sniper manuevers, bubble placement locations, bombing spots, and on and on and on that I regularly use to give me a tactical advantage over my enemy. Many of these bookmarks locations were chosen specifically because of how they align with other celestials in system, If celestials are orbiting at different rates, every day I'd need to make new "aligned bookmarks" to maintain this advantage.

And your justification: "You want a future sci fi game based on the life of an immortal ship captain" to be more realistic?

No thank you.
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
#12 - 2013-10-29 20:24:09 UTC
You want to drop a bubble between gates, warp from gate to gate and drop your bookmark, warp back to the bookmark and drop your bubble.

A dynamic system that makes the EVE universe more immersive is a good thing. Your laziness is not.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2013-10-29 20:37:39 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
You want to drop a bubble between gates, warp from gate to gate and drop your bookmark, warp back to the bookmark and drop your bubble.

A dynamic system that makes the EVE universe more immersive is a good thing. Your laziness is not.



A system that actively punishes people who have taken the time and effort to set up ambush points, align BMs for snipers, insta undocks, perches etc is not a good thing. It's not punishing the lazy, it's the exact opposite, and increasing frustration for no reason is NOT the way to increase immersion.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#14 - 2013-10-29 20:55:39 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
You want to drop a bubble between gates, warp from gate to gate and drop your bookmark, warp back to the bookmark and drop your bubble.

A dynamic system that makes the EVE universe more immersive is a good thing. Your laziness is not.


I really have the impression you don't understand the importance of alignment to nullsec combat, nor how bubbles actually work.

Angeal MacNova
LankTech
#15 - 2013-10-29 21:08:09 UTC
Anything within 1000 km of an orbiting body would orbit with that body (including book marks).

Insta-dock and insta-undock are both unaffected.
Sniper spots are unaffected.
Warp in to observe book marks also unaffected.
Safe Spots are actually improved.

Spots between stargates are the only thing that would expire and this would take a few days to a few weeks (maybe even a few months) depending on how fast the stargates orbit and the distance between them. Spots that can be set up in less than a minute. If you can't be bothered to set up when the situation requires it, that is straight up lazy.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2013-10-29 21:10:14 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Anything within 1000 km of an orbiting body would orbit with that body (including book marks).

Insta-dock and insta-undock are both unaffected.
Sniper spots are unaffected.
Warp in to observe book marks also unaffected.
Safe Spots are actually improved.

Spots between stargates are the only thing that would expire and this would take a few days to a few weeks (maybe even a few months) depending on how fast the stargates orbit and the distance between them. Spots that can be set up in less than a minute. If you can't be bothered to set up when the situation requires it, that is straight up lazy.



And for instas that are further out than that? Or gate perches further out? I have both, I use them to d-scan for bubbles/camps. Why should I have to recreate them constantly?
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
#17 - 2013-10-29 21:14:28 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Anything within 1000 km of an orbiting body would orbit with that body (including book marks).

Insta-dock and insta-undock are both unaffected.
Sniper spots are unaffected.
Warp in to observe book marks also unaffected.
Safe Spots are actually improved.

Spots between stargates are the only thing that would expire and this would take a few days to a few weeks (maybe even a few months) depending on how fast the stargates orbit and the distance between them. Spots that can be set up in less than a minute. If you can't be bothered to set up when the situation requires it, that is straight up lazy.



And for instas that are further out than that? Or gate perches further out? I have both, I use them to d-scan for bubbles/camps. Why should I have to recreate them constantly?


If you need to be more than 1000 km out, your doing it wrong However, I think it's far more likely that your just pulling **** from your ass on the premise that you 'simply don't like the idea' without any legitimate reason as to why.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2013-10-29 21:22:31 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Anything within 1000 km of an orbiting body would orbit with that body (including book marks).

Insta-dock and insta-undock are both unaffected.
Sniper spots are unaffected.
Warp in to observe book marks also unaffected.
Safe Spots are actually improved.

Spots between stargates are the only thing that would expire and this would take a few days to a few weeks (maybe even a few months) depending on how fast the stargates orbit and the distance between them. Spots that can be set up in less than a minute. If you can't be bothered to set up when the situation requires it, that is straight up lazy.



And for instas that are further out than that? Or gate perches further out? I have both, I use them to d-scan for bubbles/camps. Why should I have to recreate them constantly?


If you need to be more than 1000 km out, your doing it wrong However, I think it's far more likely that your just pulling **** from your ass on the premise that you 'simply don't like the idea' without any legitimate reason as to why.


...So why is my perch less valid than anyone elses? Dscan works at that range, and it keeps me off the radar of people watching for the 1000km perch crowd.

And you haven't provided a legitimate reason for the change in the first place...
Hyuna Saraki
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-10-29 21:28:10 UTC
This idea is terrible but I can understand that some people would appreciate realistic orbital movements. However this doesn't change the fact that the idea doesn't work for Eve.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#20 - 2013-10-29 21:29:03 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Anything within 1000 km of an orbiting body would orbit with that body (including book marks).

Insta-dock and insta-undock are both unaffected.
Sniper spots are unaffected.
Warp in to observe book marks also unaffected.
Safe Spots are actually improved.

Spots between stargates are the only thing that would expire and this would take a few days to a few weeks (maybe even a few months) depending on how fast the stargates orbit and the distance between them. Spots that can be set up in less than a minute. If you can't be bothered to set up when the situation requires it, that is straight up lazy.


You might like to place your bubble by warping to a gate at 100 km's... but this is a lazy placement. I personally like:

Bubble <---250 km---> Gate <--- many au --> Gate.

Then I can come into system and warp to the bubble, landing on the catch point in time to catchsomeone. This placement cannot be made in less than a minute, and takes some time to get properly setup!

Flyby bookmarks involve flying from point A to a position off gate and then out to B. I maintain movement and alignement, alloing a group of ships to warp in, alpha a ship, and warp out before the enemy can react. A & B are usually 5-10k km's away from the gate.
A ---> Gate ----> B

Undock bookmarks are normally 1200-5000 km's off the station. It is trivially easy to stretch a grid 2000 km's wide, which means anything within 2000 km's of station can easily be bubble trapped.
Station --> Bubble --> Undock Bookmark (if bubble and undock are on same grid, you land in the bubble!).

When I create bomber tacks around a gate/station, I almost always make sure they are aligned to a distance celestial. By taking the time to create these before a target is even present, I can quickly get into position as soon as intel comes in. Timing is extremely important for capitalizing on targets of opportunity.

I can go on with many other scenarios, where I pre-make bookmarks specifically to capitalize on the alignment of celestials, and utilize those locations to drop bubbles and engage targets. There is nothing lazy about that.

In the end, it comes down to what do you value more:
A quasi-realistic progression of planets for aesthetic purposes
or
A Static placement of planets that while unrealistic, create tactical opportunities for players to exploit.

I'm sorry, but your sense of 'realism' doesn't get my vote!

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