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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

First post First post First post
Author
Scorpionstrike
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2281 - 2013-10-28 01:02:31 UTC
Drop in power = Drop in price / LP cost ? Blink
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2282 - 2013-10-28 02:47:54 UTC
OmarNu Lakshmit wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright, after a lot of feedback and discussion I'm going to share what will likely be the last set of tweaks to the Stratios and Astero before launch.

We feel that while there are significant weaknesses in the cruiser that do balance it against major abuse, it's simply too strong in its current state. The combination of the covert cloak, black ops portal access and extremely high damage potential make for a ship that does a bit more than we are comfortable with. To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100mb/s and the drone bay to 400m3.

The ship will still have very high damage potential and will certainly still be very powerful overall.

This also makes me feel better about some other small changes that improve the ship, so we'll also be increasing the virus strength bonus to +10 and changing the laser cap use bonus to a medium energy turret optimal range bonus of 50%. We will also extend the virus strength bonus to the Astero.

Please post with feedback, but keep in mind that these changes are made after processing tons of feedback from the forums, my visit to EVE Vegas and a lot of internal discussion.

Thanks


Nooooo - don't kill nice PVE ship - pls keep large drone bay and 125 badwitch!!!!!
Yes.
If in fact CCP Rise did use feedback and discussion at vegas for these changes he obviously spoke to the wrong group and misinterpreted available feedback. Balancing the ship to make it less viable for scanning is really not the right way to go for its intended role as a PVE ship. In fact the current bonuses on the cruiser make it ideal for pvp and only just usable for low level / value DED sites, 4 sentries and 3 guns without a damage bonus is not going to help those wishing to use this ship for PVE.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2283 - 2013-10-28 03:26:47 UTC
It's actually four guns without a damage bonus.

So what sort of bonuses would be better, then? I mean, not that it matters much or anything since Rise has basically decided "This is how the ship will be" without a shred of player testing to inform his decision. Even Ytterbium stepped back in the Marauder thread and said "after actual player testing, we decided to make some changes", but that's neither here nor there.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2284 - 2013-10-28 06:24:50 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
We have all raised our suggestions and points now, there are a wealth of good ideas amongst them.

Although it seems like everything has been pre decided, I would think it quite likely that with the longer term plans, and possibly unannounced features in rubicon, that there may be a role for these ships that does to a degree make their capabilities predetermined. Naturally our suggestions will not change that core role.

Time to enjoy them and see what the future brings, we all can see there is insufficient time for play testing now before Rubicon.

I am confident that CCP Rise will, as he has already shown, try to include our wishes.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Mira Luhtanen
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2285 - 2013-10-28 07:39:56 UTC
So it's a faction cruiser with 600-700 dps and covert cloak.

Well, this is going to be pretty funny.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2286 - 2013-10-28 09:58:27 UTC
I dotn get why so much whining for 100mb.

Its not like you can only be useful on drones.

In fact all this winnign just supports that the ship was goign to be minmaxed ona single profile, somethign that is bad.

I for once, liked a LOT the changes. IN fact I feel it is more powerful NOW than it was before.


Stop underestiamting lasers!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kane Fenris
NWP
#2287 - 2013-10-28 10:24:39 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
I dotn get why so much whining for 100mb.

Its not like you can only be useful on drones.

In fact all this winnign just supports that the ship was goign to be minmaxed ona single profile, somethign that is bad.

I for once, liked a LOT the changes. IN fact I feel it is more powerful NOW than it was before.


Stop underestiamting lasers!


i totally agree.....but for one point.

lasers are generally underestimated but theres a but ....and this but is the em/therm damage composition which makes em inferior to all other weapon system if it comes to general usefullness they are just horrible in angle space for example but very good in sansha.

thats why i hate to see lasers on a ship that has a role that should be usefull everywhere.
my favorite weapon system would have been missiles cause they are used by amarr as by every other every faction (even galente with the eris ;-))
and they are the same power level everywhere

this would have fited soe way better than lasers cause i do not truely consider them a amarr faction (same as galente) cause they only adopted some of the tech in the wars where they helped and it would have made sense that they use most widespread technology (like drones).
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2288 - 2013-10-28 11:19:08 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

I for once, liked a LOT the changes. IN fact I feel it is more powerful NOW than it was before.

More powerful how? 50% extra range to 150dps unbonused lasers is nothing at all, without damage bonus it's just worthless! Tbh, I would rather have cap bonus back.
Xorionna
EVE University
Ivy League
#2289 - 2013-10-28 11:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Xorionna
It's weird to brand this new ship as pirate faction. SOE are far from being pirates, I would say navy faction instead of pirate.
The ships are not using existing hulls to fit their needs, those models are brand new (and i'm happy with it).
Shouldn't those ships have their own skill line like ORE frigates/industrial/mining barges ?
EDIT : SOE frigate skill could have astrometrics and/or astrometric rangefinding to a certain level as requirement.
SOE cruiser skill could have SOE frigate and survey to lvl 3 Astrometric rangefinding and/or pintpointing to a certain level requirement.
Lilliana Stelles
#2290 - 2013-10-28 12:53:23 UTC
Any news on what these things will actually cost yet? Assuming LP is even confirmed as the method of payment?

Not a forum alt. 

Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#2291 - 2013-10-28 12:56:54 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:


intended role as a PVE ship



You're joking right? Looks like a poor man's pilgrim or T3 to me.

The only reason I like these things are the tears they are going to bring....waaaa the LP I farmed for a month isn't worth crap....waaa the cloak didn't save me...waaaa people are using them as cheap pirate boats and it's a sisters ship...waaa ishtars still beat me to my 4/10 drops....waaaaaaa

At least there will be more stuff to kill in data/relics other than warp stabbed cov ops. Now we'll have warp stabbed SoEs too.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2292 - 2013-10-28 15:02:22 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
I dotn get why so much whining for 100mb.

Its not like you can only be useful on drones.

In fact all this winnign just supports that the ship was goign to be minmaxed ona single profile, somethign that is bad.

I for once, liked a LOT the changes. IN fact I feel it is more powerful NOW than it was before.


Stop underestiamting lasers!



there were three groups.

the largest and most happy were the regular pve guys... the ones doing annoms and basic stuff in 0.0

the smallest and loudest were the hot drop guys who said all they were going to do is hot drop people al over new eden

and them medium were the guys who actually enjoy the new hacking mini game.

so instead of just reducing the lazor damage (the real reason the ship was over the top) ccp rise decided to reduce the dps for the majority of the people who were going to use the ship... that is the regular pve player who had no intention of ever using a lazor on the ship... and they nerfed the dps by 20%....

that is why people are upset...

ccp could have kept everyone happy if they had just reduced the lazor dps by reducing turret hard points and kept the drones at 125mb...

they still can...

it just takes rise to come to the same conclusion.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Vrenth
Kestean Imperial Navy
#2293 - 2013-10-28 16:19:18 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright, after a lot of feedback and discussion I'm going to share what will likely be the last set of tweaks to the Stratios and Astero before launch.

We feel that while there are significant weaknesses in the cruiser that do balance it against major abuse, it's simply too strong in its current state. The combination of the covert cloak, black ops portal access and extremely high damage potential make for a ship that does a bit more than we are comfortable with. To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100mb/s and the drone bay to 400m3.

The ship will still have very high damage potential and will certainly still be very powerful overall.

This also makes me feel better about some other small changes that improve the ship, so we'll also be increasing the virus strength bonus to +10 and changing the laser cap use bonus to a medium energy turret optimal range bonus of 50%. We will also extend the virus strength bonus to the Astero.

Please post with feedback, but keep in mind that these changes are made after processing tons of feedback from the forums, my visit to EVE Vegas and a lot of internal discussion.

Thanks



On paper it sounds like a reasonable change but for me, you have just made me go from looking forward to flying a ship other than T3s to being completely uninterested in the SOE hulls...

You had the chance to mix things up in wormhole pvp a little with these new ships but this most recent change makes is utterly impractical. Most of the cloaky T3's will be able to out-dps this ship while having double the tank and stronger ew ability/defense.

You should have left the drones as they were and got rid of turret slots along with the stupid energy turret bonus... The only thing that justifies the stratios being such a boring, under-performing ship is if you plan to release a battle ship version.


It will likely be at least half the cost of a t3 hull, that is always a factor.
Helios Aquiness
Perkone
Caldari State
#2294 - 2013-10-28 17:02:08 UTC
Just one question, where is the Star Destroyer battleship?
Carebear? Im a brony, motherf***er.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2295 - 2013-10-28 18:00:25 UTC
I have deleted some spam from this thread.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents

Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#2296 - 2013-10-28 19:52:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Godfrey Silvarna
NOOOOO you are taking away my delicious 5 sentry dones!

In a more serious tone, I would have suggested removing some turret slots or reducing fitting capabilities instead of reducing the drone bandwidth. This would have kept the Stratios as a more dedicated drone boat.

Having a sentry drone using sniper/kiter with a covert ops cloak would be awesome. Turrets and tank be damned. We have plenty of cloaky brawlers already.

Focusing more on long range combat would also give it a legitimate role in wormhole pvp that would not compete with tech 3 ships.

Maybe give the drone bonus only for sentries?
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#2297 - 2013-10-28 20:35:56 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
I dotn get why so much whining for 100mb.

Its not like you can only be useful on drones.

In fact all this winnign just supports that the ship was goign to be minmaxed ona single profile, somethign that is bad.

I for once, liked a LOT the changes. IN fact I feel it is more powerful NOW than it was before.


Stop underestiamting lasers!



there were three groups.

the largest and most happy were the regular pve guys... the ones doing annoms and basic stuff in 0.0

the smallest and loudest were the hot drop guys who said all they were going to do is hot drop people al over new eden

and them medium were the guys who actually enjoy the new hacking mini game.

so instead of just reducing the lazor damage (the real reason the ship was over the top) ccp rise decided to reduce the dps for the majority of the people who were going to use the ship... that is the regular pve player who had no intention of ever using a lazor on the ship... and they nerfed the dps by 20%....

that is why people are upset...

ccp could have kept everyone happy if they had just reduced the lazor dps by reducing turret hard points and kept the drones at 125mb...

they still can...

it just takes rise to come to the same conclusion.



Amen to that!

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2298 - 2013-10-28 23:52:49 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
I dotn get why so much whining for 100mb.

Its not like you can only be useful on drones.

In fact all this winnign just supports that the ship was goign to be minmaxed ona single profile, somethign that is bad.

I for once, liked a LOT the changes. IN fact I feel it is more powerful NOW than it was before.


Stop underestiamting lasers!



there were three groups.

the largest and most happy were the regular pve guys... the ones doing annoms and basic stuff in 0.0

the smallest and loudest were the hot drop guys who said all they were going to do is hot drop people al over new eden

and them medium were the guys who actually enjoy the new hacking mini game.

so instead of just reducing the lazor damage (the real reason the ship was over the top) ccp rise decided to reduce the dps for the majority of the people who were going to use the ship... that is the regular pve player who had no intention of ever using a lazor on the ship... and they nerfed the dps by 20%....

that is why people are upset...

ccp could have kept everyone happy if they had just reduced the lazor dps by reducing turret hard points and kept the drones at 125mb...

they still can...

it just takes rise to come to the same conclusion.


Nope. Youa re wrong. The 5 sentry drones were the thign that was goign to be abused (With 3 drone damage mods) and woudl become too pwoerful on PVP for a ship with cloak


Even if you removed ALL guns, it woudl still be TOO powerful on PVP with 125m bandwidth and a covert ops cloak.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#2299 - 2013-10-29 00:00:51 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
It's actually four guns without a damage bonus.

So what sort of bonuses would be better, then? I mean, not that it matters much or anything since Rise has basically decided "This is how the ship will be" without a shred of player testing to inform his decision. Even Ytterbium stepped back in the Marauder thread and said "after actual player testing, we decided to make some changes", but that's neither here nor there.

No, it's three guns for any exploration fit ship in low or null.
Cloak+Probes. Leaves only three guns
You can four gun in high sec, or a gate camp fit, or if you have someone else probing for you.
But at the point someone else is probing for you, why not use a ship properly bonused for DPS like the Ishtar instead.

As a result if the ship is meant to be a laser ship, it needs a laser damage bonus badly. And should have two utility high slots that are not part of the DPS calculation, meaning it should drop to three hard points. 37.5% Damage bonus & 3 hard points leaves laser DPS almost exactly what it is now, while dropping the gank fits people are panicking about since it reduces blaster DPS.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2300 - 2013-10-29 00:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Kagura Nikon wrote:


Nope. Youa re wrong. The 5 sentry drones were the thign that was goign to be abused (With 3 drone damage mods) and woudl become too pwoerful on PVP for a ship with cloak


Even if you removed ALL guns, it woudl still be TOO powerful on PVP with 125m bandwidth and a covert ops cloak.


not if you reduced the bonus to 7.5%

what we have now is 6 effective drones

with 5 @ 37.5% you are looking at 6.875 drones

or with max damage setup 3 drone dramage II and sentry II

you get 717 dps with garde II

thats vrs the 627 you would get under the heavy handed nerf.

thats about 90 more dps or 14% more max dps.

moreove with ex damage drone the dps goes down far.


but thats a pretty niche setup most people using the ship might use one or two max drone mods and the high slots for pve stuff.

if the guns can add 150 dps and thats not bad why would 90 extra dps from the max dps setup be bad for drones... i will say it again just reduce the turrets. (hey i would put it at 0 turrets 0 missiles) and just be done with the silly lazor bonus. its not needed.

edit:

or they could do something pretty cool like change the drone bonus to just medium drones... i mean medium drones are pretty lol right? why not make them mean.

i would not mind if they changed the drone bonus to:
25% medium drone damage and hitpoints per level

that would give them 595 dps with 0.922 tracking over the 0.36 that orge II get. so even though its dps is lower its applied dps should be simular.

second edit: i would then get rid of the lazor bonus and replace with a 50% bonus to drone speed/tracking.
but make it across the board.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.