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T3 Flagships (new battleships)
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M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#41 - 2013-10-20 20:32:59 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
no.
T3 cruisers are still unbalanced.

It's not so much T3 cruisers as much as it is the tengu seriously overperfoming.



Tengu needs to have the 100mn AB fit nerfed, otherwise it's fine.

Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Resurrecting this... And yes, I do appreciate that HAC, Black Ops and Marauders need to be fixed (or re-balanced). I'm completely against nerf'ing the T3s though because the problem isn't the T3s - it's the off-grid boosting (topic for another day). A few additional ideas I came up with for subsystems (in no particular order or race) to make Flagships unique:

• Carrier subsystem; allows a limited number of fighters with docking bay
• Barrage subsystem; allows for multiple bomb launchers with extended range
• Flak subsystem; allows for extreme rapid firing of light turrets/launchers
• Critical strike subsystem; allows for single volleys of weapons with increased hit chance (reload after)

You forgot that T3 ships are generalist ships: they can take any role but masters of none. Current T3 cruisers outperform several classes in their specialty: HACs, Blockade Runners, Command Ships, Covert Ops. That makes them unbalanced.

There are not many roles for T3 BS to take atm. Suggesting new ones only for them will lead to further imbalance.




HACs - Most HACs outright suck, T3s being better is more commentary about how terrible more than half the HACs are useless.
Blockade Runners - Find me a T3 that had 9,000 m3 of cargo.
Command Ships - They addressed that, I'd go look it up but it's simply not worth the time because you're wrong.
Cov Ops - Has exploration bonuses T3s don't.

T3s aren't unbalanced.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#42 - 2013-10-21 07:03:43 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Tengu needs to have the 100mn AB fit nerfed, otherwise it's fine.

Let me know how well that goes over...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Coyote Laughing
#43 - 2013-10-21 07:18:18 UTC
I have to agree with previous posts, get the T2 battleships fixed up and rebalanced first.

I'd like to see a small gang type of command ship first (possibly destroyer sized).

My previous suggestions is to remove the CPU and Power grid slots (3 subsystems) for T3 frigates, then put 7 subsystems in the T3 battleships (giving them effectively a command deck and auxillary generator slot).

l8r \o/
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#44 - 2013-10-22 16:10:46 UTC
HACs suck? Really? They were great before the buff, now they are unreal. Suck, haha go ahead and try to fight a couple HACs in well pretty much anything anymore, tell me how it goes now. HACs are amazing
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#45 - 2013-10-22 16:38:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Coyote Laughing wrote:
I have to agree with previous posts, get the T2 battleships fixed up and rebalanced first.

So we can introduce new SoE ships while we continue rebalancing (quarterly updates), but that doesn't work for T3 stuff because...?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Coyote Laughing
#46 - 2013-10-24 23:39:08 UTC
Uh, maybe because they already announced such big changes for battleships already.

It would be good to get that right, before introducing bigger changes to the game like new T3 ships.

Of course, if they want to game break maurauders so they can take down T3 cruisers, I'm not going to complain.

l8r \o/
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#47 - 2013-10-25 01:27:00 UTC
T3's were originally designed to be jack of all trades, master of none. In this respect they are still OP'd. Some HAC's have better damage application than the existing T3's, but i believe HAC's are meant to be for more than that. For example, i dnt believe that a proteus or legion should so easily out brawl a deimos or sacrilege and 100mn tengu's are widely regarded as OP'd with good reason.

the isk and SP cost to T3's is a deterrent as mentioned, not a balancing factor. Cost and SP time should never be a balancing factor. neither should such a bad mechanic as losing SP when u lose the ship.

As for T3 battleships, fine once everyother ship is balanced and is sorted out, and once CCP decide what T3 is really for and what its supposed to be capable of.

the SoE ships are a very small addition to the game because they are so specialist, doubly so compared to the impact new T3's would have.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#48 - 2013-10-25 02:34:08 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
the SoE ships are a very small addition to the game because they are so specialist, doubly so compared to the impact new T3's would have.

From what I gather, the SoE ships are vastly overpowered. They make T3s pale by comparison...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#49 - 2013-10-25 10:30:51 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
the SoE ships are a very small addition to the game because they are so specialist, doubly so compared to the impact new T3's would have.

From what I gather, the SoE ships are vastly overpowered. They make T3s pale by comparison...


ur right, SoE ships are the new FOTM's for fleets and station camping...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#50 - 2013-10-25 10:49:12 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
ur right, SoE ships are the new FOTM's for fleets and station camping...

So much for trying kill "power creep".

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Shivanthar
#51 - 2013-10-25 10:56:59 UTC
Shiera Kuni wrote:
When I think of a 'Flagship' class T3 battleship, I honestly don't think along the same lines of the strategic cruisers, well not quite along those lines anyway. I see a flagship as being a subcap-capital ship, a battleship with the ability to equip a specific module (I.E. Triage, Siege, Command) to modify their role on the battlefield. When activating these modules (Which, of course, they can only have one at a time), they would receive bonuses toward that aspect and penalties towards others.

Triage: Much like triage carriers, these would be battleship level logi ships, able to RR their fleet more efficiently while suffering say, a mobility penalty.

Siege: Similar to the Dreadnaught's Siege mode, the Flagship would enter a high damage mode, which would be offset by penalties to their tanking ability (Drop in EHP/Res/what have you)

Command: In Command mode, a Flagship would get boosts to their own EHP as well as boosts to ganglinks (As long as they are on-grid), but suffer a severe damage penalty.

Obviously there would need to be balancing, more than a little number crunching, etc. to make sure that while these Flagships are useful, they are NOT capital ships. But, personally, I think this would be a welcome addition to EVE's ship catalog.


Triage! True. Frigates have triage, cruisers and capitals also have triages. But BS' don't have that :(
Siege: BS class siege will be introduced with Rubicon. Bastion module for marauders.
Command: I've never dip my toe in any command ship so far. I don't have anything to say here.

These ideas actually don't need to turn into a module of some sort of ship. Instead, these can be whole new range of BSes. BTW, I only see triage battleships coming out of here as a neat idea.

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#52 - 2013-10-25 11:36:29 UTC
I guess we'll have to see what happens with T3 ships as a whole, and what direction CCP wants to take them in. I think once that's been ascertained, it should be fairly easy to expand on the T3 line.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-10-27 16:52:03 UTC
Mohadib Flagrante wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Neut legion? -yes !!
ECM Tengu? -hell no

Heavy tackle Proteus? -yes
Heavy Tackle Tengu? -hell no, even with 200K EHP, Neuts balance perfectly well this role

Double web Loki?- yes, yes, yes
Point Tengu, logistics Tengu, Blaster Tengu? -what a joke, nice snowflakes nice on paper, nothing else.





I see ECM gus' periodicaly in w-space, and they are quite irritating in a small-medium sized gang engagement.

Nuets balence pretty much EVERY form of tackle that isn't cap boosted... thats kinda the point of nuets

Logi gu's are, aside from the range issue, HILARIOUSLY overpowered. The key is having a fleet comp that supports their use, and having the pilots with the skills and implants to make it work. A repgu can out-rep any conventional logistics in terms of pure repping amount, with massively more EHP. It does require some unconventional tactics to exploit however, due to the range.

Double web lokis are the only loki fits you see, because the webs are the only reason to bring them. Other than that one sub, and fleet boosting of course, they are pretty useless compared to other T3s.




If you start using "unconventional tactics and fits" "implants" and "millions" in the same phrase to justify whatever ship is overpowered you're doing it wrong.
Try to fight an officer fit whatever the crap ship and come tell us more about op ships.

You can't justify how op is some ship in a specific situation where over 50% of the advantages you get fielding it comes from "unconventional" stuff. Otherwise all ships in game are all OP depending on days flavor.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
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