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Abaddon Vs Paladin
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Johobie
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-10-23 09:49:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Johobie
So, i'm posting this in an effort to bring to light the uselessness of the Paladin.

With the Abaddon you get better resists and the same amount of dmg output. Amarr BS level 5 = 25% dmg + 20% Armor Resist. Marauder lvl 5 = 37.5% Armor rep amount + 25% dmg. Just looking at that alone is enough to say the Paladin is an overpriced glorified mission runner. Personally i wouldn't waste the time or effort fitting a Salvager and Tractor to the Paladin because it nullifies the Noctis that I have for salvaging anything i deem worth the time to salvage. As an amarr pureist i favor pulse over beams, dps has always been an issue with lasers, so my solution is to fire fast instead. So I guess what im saying, why field a ship that costs 1 Bill to start and waste the time training Marauder to 5 when I can spend 1/4 that on an Abaddon that does the job just the same?
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#2 - 2013-10-23 10:26:07 UTC
Before changes the Paladin was able to fit Tachs which made it far better than the Abaddon at missions. After changes it will have an optimal bonus and bastion mode so the Abaddon will not be in the same league as it is.
Zak Matrix
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-10-23 10:30:25 UTC
What kind of fits are you actually comparing to each other? I tend to fit tachyons on my pallies, giving me almost 1k dps with turrets alone up to 40km optimal with faction multifreqs. And with the coming bastion module you get big tank boost, more optimal/falloff and immunity against ewar like tracking disruption.
Gh0stBust3rs
Templars HIghsec
Stellar Fusion
#4 - 2013-10-23 10:33:48 UTC
your forgetting resist profiles.

Paladin
EM 50
EXP 40
KIN 34.375
Therm 35

also forgetting the Cap bonus and fitting 4 less guns doing the same damage using less cap

abaddon
EM 50
EXP 20
KIN 25
THERM 35

So where the baddons resists might be a bit better at all 5 its going to use more cap with guns and also need more fittings for tank
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#5 - 2013-10-23 10:55:44 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Paladin can utilize Tachyons, that are more effective overall, once you look not only at EM weak rats(that often hang out at 50km, where tachs can use multi) but also ships with more EM resists, where the added thermal damage at range really improves the overall performance.

Out of the perspective of max gank L4, I was a bit disappointed with the paladin to a few years ago as I did buy my first, however you can to free 2-3 slots by the better cap and the inbuilt cap bonus, it is much faster with a mwd on it(what creates big issues on a abaddon) and it can insta pop frigs at close range with the web what allows you to utilize 3 sentry's instead of 2 with a set of light drones(however it will probably lose the feature to become the lazy mans L4 ship at expense of overall performance).

You are actually correct with the resist bonus, I actually to prefer higher resists in combination with lower rep because it works better during high dps spikes in combination with fairly low active tank numbers, but overall the active tank bonus with the better cap(that allows for lazier tank and cap management) make it not much of a issue.

Overall the performance in max gank fittings can be fairly similar, but then again the Abaddon is very tricky ship to fly in this kind of fitting and needs a pilot that knows L4 and his cap, tank and dps behaviour inside out to run smoothly with something like a 200 dps tank and 3 minutes of cap for L4.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
SoldierSister
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-10-23 20:39:16 UTC
and in 4 weeks bastion modes get fitted to maurders. which will make a massive difference.

illirdor
Upper Class Goat
#7 - 2013-10-24 09:55:43 UTC
You also have to consider with the new bastion plus t2 resist that you dont really need that many tanking modules så that means more deeps and more tracking wich in turn makes them clear faster... also i love the baddon but god it sucks at missions

Soooo this is my sig.... 
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#8 - 2013-10-24 17:00:00 UTC
illirdor wrote:
You also have to consider with the new bastion plus t2 resist

Marauders does not have proper T2 resists.
culo duro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-10-25 10:24:19 UTC
illirdor wrote:
You also have to consider with the new bastion plus t2 resist that you dont really need that many tanking modules så that means more deeps and more tracking wich in turn makes them clear faster... also i love the baddon but god it sucks at missions


I'd sure wish they'd have a T2 resist profile, it would give me a purpose to use them.

I've starting blogging http://www.epvpc.blogspot.com 
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#10 - 2013-10-25 16:33:19 UTC
Johobie wrote:
So, i'm posting this in an effort to bring to light the uselessness of the Paladin.

With the Abaddon you get better resists and the same amount of dmg output. Amarr BS level 5 = 25% dmg + 20% Armor Resist. Marauder lvl 5 = 37.5% Armor rep amount + 25% dmg. Just looking at that alone is enough to say the Paladin is an overpriced glorified mission runner.

Personally i wouldn't waste the time or effort fitting a Salvager and Tractor to the Paladin because it nullifies the Noctis that I have for salvaging anything i deem worth the time to salvage.

As an amarr pureist i favor pulse over beams, dps has always been an issue with lasers, so my solution is to fire fast instead.

So I guess what im saying, why field a ship that costs 1 Bill to start and waste the timetraining Marauder to 5 when I can spend 1/4 that on an Abaddon that does the job just the same?


1. just ignore the other set of bonuses

2. I'd rather have one ship than 2. going back is a pain in the ass. I rarely loot anyways and I still love the tractor bonus as it lets me get loot cans faster to finish the mission.

3. both are lasers so both are amarrian. and to say dps is an issue so fire faster... well that kinda misses the point of dps.

4. except they really don't do the job the same.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-10-25 19:53:42 UTC
Johobie wrote:
So, i'm posting this in an effort to bring to light the uselessness of the Paladin.

With the Abaddon you get better resists and the same amount of dmg output. Amarr BS level 5 = 25% dmg + 20% Armor Resist. Marauder lvl 5 = 37.5% Armor rep amount + 25% dmg. Just looking at that alone is enough to say the Paladin is an overpriced glorified mission runner. Personally i wouldn't waste the time or effort fitting a Salvager and Tractor to the Paladin because it nullifies the Noctis that I have for salvaging anything i deem worth the time to salvage. As an amarr pureist i favor pulse over beams, dps has always been an issue with lasers, so my solution is to fire fast instead. So I guess what im saying, why field a ship that costs 1 Bill to start and waste the time training Marauder to 5 when I can spend 1/4 that on an Abaddon that does the job just the same?


1. 37.5% rep > 20% resists
2. Paladin has half the cap draw when firing weapons

Just these make a Paladin straight up better for missioning

3. Paladin has the grid to fit tachyons
4. Either the web now or the optimal in Rubicon gives the Paladin way better actual dps/projection on targets

And after Rubicon hits
5. Paladin has the bonus for MJD and the cap for MWD so mobility is increased
6. Bastion (for whatever it's worth)

The big advantage that the Paladin has over the Abaddon is the ability to mission with Tachyons. You can hit 1000dps just about anywhere while the mega pulses only manage that within 25ish km. If you for go tachyons for pulses, the advantage lessens.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-10-26 09:11:08 UTC
Paladin:
+50% web effectiveness (will be lowered when changes come)

-50% cap use, -50% ammo use

11% better explosive resists on armor
25% better explosive resists on shield

10% better active tank against EM/Therm(1.375/1.25 factoring in the abaddon resist bonus), ~37.5% better agaisnt angel/minmatar ships

1 km longer targetting range :/
4mm worse scan res :(

18% faster

10% more cap reserves
50% better cap recharge rate (thanks to much loser cap recharge time)
Add this to the "half cap use bonus", and you should start to see an area that the paladin shines in relative to the abaddon.

Its got a *much* better cap, which fits in well with its better active tank.

The web bonus and better cap means you can use tachyons, which means better DPS projection/more applied DPS.
stoicfaux
#13 - 2013-10-27 07:56:17 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Johobie wrote:
So, i'm posting this in an effort to bring to light the uselessness of the Paladin.

With the Abaddon you get better resists and the same amount of dmg output. Amarr BS level 5 = 25% dmg + 20% Armor Resist. Marauder lvl 5 = 37.5% Armor rep amount + 25% dmg. Just looking at that alone is enough to say the Paladin is an overpriced glorified mission runner. Personally i wouldn't waste the time or effort fitting a Salvager and Tractor to the Paladin because it nullifies the Noctis that I have for salvaging anything i deem worth the time to salvage. As an amarr pureist i favor pulse over beams, dps has always been an issue with lasers, so my solution is to fire fast instead. So I guess what im saying, why field a ship that costs 1 Bill to start and waste the time training Marauder to 5 when I can spend 1/4 that on an Abaddon that does the job just the same?


edit: In case the OP isn't aware: Rubicon Marauder Changes

Because the Abaddon can't do the same job.

DPS: 871 Range: 95km+19km
476 tank versus EM/Therm in Bastion mode with a MARII for 10 minutes... (Yes, I said MEDIUM armor repairer.)
400+tank versus everything else.
Too Lazy to Swap Hardeners? EM 79.5% Therm: 73.3% Kin: 73% Expl: 75.3% with EANMIIs
MWD and MJD.
Can loot and salvage on the go, because coming back in a Noctis isn't worth the time.

[Rubicon Paladin, New Setup 1]
Heat Sink II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Large Micro Jump Drive
100MN Microwarpdrive II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Bastion Module I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Energy Burst Aerator II

Salvage Drone I x5
Hobgoblin II x10


Feel free to post an Abaddon with a matching fit. Shocked

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#14 - 2013-10-27 08:39:39 UTC
"amarr pureist" says it all.


internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
My Little Pyongyang
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-10-27 13:23:37 UTC
Please, show me a 5 damage mod Abaddon fit that doesn't have a tank made out of wet paper and a capacitor that lasts less time than you do.

I'll wait.