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One last attempt at rationally explaining the super nerf
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xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-11-17 22:10:24 UTC  |  Edited by: xxxak
Old EVE:

Supers are OP against a lot of ships, and are used in various ways by their owners. Some of these uses are abusive... but in general supers still die to well run fleets, and there are several "fun" uses for supers in relatively small alliances/fleets.


New EVE:

Lose subcap fight, all your caps/supers on the field die. No one with a supercap is willing to purposefully risk that in a "fair" or "fun" fight.

Thus, supercap alliances don't commit supers as often, but when they do, they only commit supers with massive, unstoppable support, and with massive massive blobs of supers. (See: the DRF facestomp the NC in 2011, with super fleets around 150 ships, and subcap support at 500-1500 ships. There were not a lot of actual fights as the NC died. 95% of the time, the spies simply sized up each fleet, and the FC would disengage if his fleet was smaller.)

Thus, under the new system, superpilots in smaller alliances will see that their smaller alliances never deploy supers, and will leave those alliances. They will join the 3-4 largest alliances in the game, and supers will become even more concentrated, and will be used in even more "unfair" and less-fun ways.

It's true that these changes will reduce the use of small gangs of caps/super caps for hotdrops. But these changes will also result in a massive concentration of wealth/firepower in an even smaller number of player alliances. In the long run, this will further restrict access to 0.0 for younger players, and make EVE a less fun game.

(P.S. The Mittani will finally be on track to ruin EVE, his ultimate stated goal).

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-11-17 22:17:53 UTC
Hai xxxak!

You be Trollin'
I be respondin'

[X] - U mad?
[ ] - Can I haz your stuffz?
[X] - Troll, 3/10
[ ] - Who would _____ someone with a name like _____
[ ] - WOW is that way ====>
[ ] - Haters gonna hate
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-11-17 22:18:28 UTC
I'm still looking for the rationality.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#4 - 2011-11-17 22:20:42 UTC
xxxak wrote:
Thus, supercap alliances don't commit supers as often
Good.
Gealla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-11-17 22:20:53 UTC
So the new thread instead of posting in your existing thread (in which you claimed you're just trolling btw) is for why now?....
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-11-17 22:26:49 UTC
4 powerblocs running EVE is still better than 1.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-11-17 22:27:24 UTC
xxxak wrote:
Lose subcap fight, all your caps/supers on the field die.


How so?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-11-17 22:27:51 UTC
P.S.

You are an ignorant peasant if you think that the Knights and Lords of EVE will allow their favorite toys to go unused.

They as I have outlined above, in the New EVE we will simply gather more of you pathetic little groundworms to serve as cannon fodder in subcap fleets as we ride above the frey in a massive fleet of supercaps, facerolling Sov even more brutally than before this nerf.

It's just human nature.

Enjoy the patch.

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-11-17 22:29:03 UTC
Tippia wrote:
xxxak wrote:
Thus, supercap alliances don't commit supers as often
Good.


Tippia, the ships may be used somewhat less often, but I promise you that when they are, you will like the results even less than you do now.

Enjoy post-patch EVE. I will.

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#10 - 2011-11-17 22:29:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
xxxak wrote:
Enjoy the patch.
Oh, don't worry. Everyone will.
Quote:
Tippia, the ships may be used somewhat less often, but I promise you that when they are, you will like the results even less than you do now.
Oh, you mean they will only bring out the big guns when there's reason to bring out the big guns? Even better.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2011-11-17 22:34:44 UTC
death2supercaps

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#12 - 2011-11-17 22:35:21 UTC
The uber supercap pilot that logged off last night after we tackled him in a sanctum will be madder than you in a few weeks, but not by much.

The peasants look forward to looting your wreck.

Also, your concept of the fair fight is hilarious, please expand on it.
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-11-17 22:36:32 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
death2supercaps


I think this quote, coming from this poaster, pretty much counts as Federally certified evidence for everything I just said above.

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
Jita Alt666
#14 - 2011-11-17 22:36:49 UTC
1. Super Capitals and Titans were only supposed to be held and used by a few "elite" players.
3. The deployment of Super-capitals and Titans was envisaged to be a show of power in addition to large sub-capital fleets, and
4. Super-capitals and Titans were planned as anti capital platforms.

Because the Super-capital class were essentially immune to the sub-cap class only the very dumb (and alone) Super-capital pilots suffered losses. This led to a proliferation of Super-Capitals that has reduced sov warfare to being:

N Super Caps < N+1 Super Caps

The argument that Super-capital pilots will congeal into large blobs is a laughable.
H-W; 2 biggest Super-Capital blobs in the game
UMI: 2 biggest Super-Capital blobs in the game
LXQ2: 2 biggest Super-Capital blobs in the game
VFK: 1 Biggest Super-Capital blob in the game

You can argue that these blobs were not permanent - however due to the nature of Super-capital mechanics, every alliance NAP since the fall of IT has been about Super-capital dominance.
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-11-17 22:38:58 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
The uber supercap pilot that logged off last night after we tackled him in a sanctum will be madder than you in a few weeks, but not by much.

The peasants look forward to looting your wreck.

Also, your concept of the fair fight is hilarious, please expand on it.


My concept of a fair/fun fight it a fight that is not predetermined before it starts.

Under the new rules, no super pilot will commit his 20-50 bil isk ship unless he knows he can win. Thus, he will simply join the largest alliance possible and require their pets/peasant soldiers to die for his continued glory. Same as before, just with even bigger blobs.

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#16 - 2011-11-17 22:40:46 UTC
xxxak wrote:
KrakizBad wrote:
The uber supercap pilot that logged off last night after we tackled him in a sanctum will be madder than you in a few weeks, but not by much.

The peasants look forward to looting your wreck.

Also, your concept of the fair fight is hilarious, please expand on it.


My concept of a fair/fun fight it a fight that is not predetermined before it starts.

Under the new rules, no super pilot will commit his 20-50 bil isk ship unless he knows he can win. Thus, he will simply join the largest alliance possible and require their pets/peasant soldiers to die for his continued glory. Same as before, just with even bigger blobs.


And this is different from now how? Point me to the fight where SC pilots went in without at least thinking their side had the tactical advantage. The fact that they may have been wrong doesn't make it a fair fight.
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-11-17 22:41:09 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
1. Super Capitals and Titans were only supposed to be held and used by a few "elite" players.
3. The deployment of Super-capitals and Titans was envisaged to be a show of power in addition to large sub-capital fleets, and
4. Super-capitals and Titans were planned as anti capital platforms.

Because the Super-capital class were essentially immune to the sub-cap class only the very dumb (and alone) Super-capital pilots suffered losses. This led to a proliferation of Super-Capitals that has reduced sov warfare to being:

N Super Caps < N+1 Super Caps

The argument that Super-capital pilots will congeal into large blobs is a laughable.
H-W; 2 biggest Super-Capital blobs in the game
UMI: 2 biggest Super-Capital blobs in the game
LXQ2: 2 biggest Super-Capital blobs in the game
VFK: 1 Biggest Super-Capital blob in the game

You can argue that these blobs were not permanent - however due to the nature of Super-capital mechanics, every alliance NAP since the fall of IT has been about Super-capital dominance.




Actually, that is MY point. What you fail to extrapolate from your own data is that this trend will be EVEN FURTHER MAGNIFIED by the new nerf -- as super pilots will have more reason than ever to be in the N+1 blob rather than the N blob.

Do you understand? Yes / No

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#18 - 2011-11-17 22:43:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
You know super cap pilots are much of a slave as any battleship or interceptor pilot is.

"When they say jump, you jump becuase they own your @#$."
-John Rouke

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Nemesis Factor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2011-11-17 22:45:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Nemesis Factor
I don't think it will be reason enough to leave your corp.

They'll either risk it or get out of the ship.

I can fly a supercarrier, but I don't plan on joining a mega-alliance.
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-11-17 22:45:53 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
xxxak wrote:
KrakizBad wrote:
The uber supercap pilot that logged off last night after we tackled him in a sanctum will be madder than you in a few weeks, but not by much.

The peasants look forward to looting your wreck.

Also, your concept of the fair fight is hilarious, please expand on it.


My concept of a fair/fun fight it a fight that is not predetermined before it starts.

Under the new rules, no super pilot will commit his 20-50 bil isk ship unless he knows he can win. Thus, he will simply join the largest alliance possible and require their pets/peasant soldiers to die for his continued glory. Same as before, just with even bigger blobs.


And this is different from now how? Point me to the fight where SC pilots went in without at least thinking their side had the tactical advantage. The fact that they may have been wrong doesn't make it a fair fight.


The difference is that now supers will be used slightly less, true. But they will be used in even more "unfair" and curbstomping ways.

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
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