Science & Industry

Except, they weren't given to certain players for free. They were awarded to people via a lottery system, with the chance to win being proportional to the player's investment into the system. This is the exact, factual opposite of "free", and it's no more or less "unfair" than it is when Alice and Bob walk into the same casino, Alice goes bust, and Bob hits the jackpot.

So, since you've just asserted that that's the basis of the complaint, and since we've now established that your premise is factually incorrect, you no longer have a complaint.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

The copy times are largely irrelevant because the market adapts to the conditions of making the item. If you look at T2 crystals, they have gone up and down but are generally a profitable item. So while it might be nice to flatten the times to make them, (I think I even complained about this at one time) the profitability doesn't seem to be drastically affected by it since people who don't mind it make them is small compared to those that stay away.

The one item that seems to have a huge problem with copying is cloaking devices. I think you can only make 1 or 2 full run copies in a station. I think that's because it's being treated as a T2 blueprint. But then again my same logic applies.

However T2 BPOs are first at the trough leaving the rest of us to live off what they leave.

There's no reason for T2 BPOs to persist in the game. They are the Technetium of manufacturing. Out of date, overpowered, tainted with scandal. Anyone who had one has had plenty of time to exploit this asset. It's high time they were removed and a fairer more level playing field brought into being for Eve industrialists.

He can't. His "argument" is that he hopes repeating something enough times will magically make it become true.

T2 bpos were available to players years ago through a lottery system based on Research Agents. Instead of getting datacores you got a small chance to win a BPO. They were intended to be rare.

When the system was changed to invention T2 bpcs became much more accessible. Anyone, with a little skills training, can now do T2 manufacture.

However the blueprints in the new system are weaker that the blueprints of the old. -4 PE -4 ME and copies not originals. The BPOs can of course be researched to be more efficient.

It makes no sense that there are better scientific blueprints. It's not immersive - have New Eden scientists become dumber and thus incapable of making these super-blueprints? It makes no game balance sense - do old rich players need a crutch to help them keep up with upcoming new players?

Ships and weapons that are superceded get removed or nerfed. You can no longer deploy mines or AOE doomsdays. So why should the class of 06 have better industrial ability than players who started in later years just because they happened to be playing at that time?

It also distorts the economy. A T2 BPO will always dominate the production of that item increasing the risk for inventors. This is because it has better ME and PE which means they cost less to make per item. It also waives the requirement to spend materials on inventing which is an additional cost saving. Suppose an item sells 200 units per day, 100 of which are produced by T2 BPO holders. If the item sees a slump in demand, say to 120, we will see 100 items supplied by BPO holders and inventors will lose 80% of their trading volume. Thus it magnifies risk for inventors by ring-fencing some portion of the custom leaving a smaller market share available for inventors.




Well don't you look silly.

For inventors it's very easy to change markets. Railguns not selling well this month, then invent, build and sell lasers (or whatever is selling well). That's something that a T2 BPO holder can't do. If the item their BPO makes doesn't sell, then they have a rather expensive piece of paper.
If someone were to research a market before starting in on it and see that there's very low turnover (200 items total a day for example), then a smart person wouldn't enter that market at all. Leave it for the BPO holders and the people who don't do market research.



T2 BPOs aren't limited to the class of 06 and earlier. They're tradable and are regularly traded. If they have such huge advantages, why don't you buy a couple and exploit that advantage yourself?

These changes insured manufacuring by T2 BPO's is much more efficient than manufacturing by Invention. The result is T2 BPO's, which were already valuable, suddenly became extraordinarily valuable. They are not only rare legacy items of limited supply, but many of them are isk-printing machines when put to full use.



Whining about lost technology here, right before you point out additional nerfs to technology in the following paragraph is silly. Frankly, EvE's content is not centered on it's amazing storyline. Content in EvE is player created by the conflicts and interactions of players. In other words, when your playing an immortal pilot flying through the stars, you have no right to ***** about realism. Especially when "reasonable explanations" can be conjured up by any daydreaming fanfick writer.



Why does class of '09 have access to a Zephyr?
Why does class of '10 have access to a Primae
Why does class of '11 have access to an Echelon?

Many unique items exist in this game, and access to them came about from being in the right place, at the right time. From being lucky to playing smart. These items often give in-game advantages, are sometimes valued at extraordinary amounts of isk, and so on.

Finally, both doomsdays and mines were changed, not removed from the game. They were changed to bring game play balance to areas of the game that were escalating into very unbalanced situations.

Realize, when CCP removed the T2 BPO lottery and instituted invention, they had a very difficult choice:
Option 1: Keep T2 BPO's in the game, leaving legacy items of extreme value. This was potentially unfair to anyone playing the game at that time. The lucky BPO holders become more secure in the position, as they hold golden tickets they could exploit. At the same time, these players were already "lucky". Furthermore, anyone with lots of energy invested in attempting to win a lottery loses out on ever winning a prized possession.

Option 2: Remove T2 BPO's from the game. This had the potential of severely disrupting the t2 economy. It was also unfair to the lucky winners of T2 BPO's, as they put time and energy into the game to secure their lottery tickets.

The fact is, CCP went with Option 1, and I'm sure many players at that time felt it was unfair the could never win a T2 BPO. Realize though, this was many, many, many years ago. The game survived, players accepted the change, and the game has evolved. At this point in time, current T2 BPO holders are no longer the "lucky ticket holders" of a bygone era. They are investors and collectors that have spent years of effort to acquire their precious prizes, often at ridiculous costs to ascertain. At this point, the existence of T2 BPO's generally a moot point. Yes, there are certain markets that they hold a large sway over, namely low volume T2 Items. Invention Producers will lose to BPO producers when competing in these markets, but so what. The end user gets the item cheaper because the T2 BPO holder exists, and the careless inventor loses some isk. IMO, that is simply a win-win scenario!



So? Seriously... so what? Why is this an issue?

I'd like to put my name down on the pro-T2 BPO side. Yes, I wish i had a T2 BPO, but they absolutely do NOT need to be removed. Almost all T2 items are profitable through the invention process. And not just a bit above break even, you can make LOADS of isk inventing as long as you pick the right items.

The people that won the T2 BPO's played years and years ago. Let them have their treasures. They played for 10 years, they deserve to have something better than what we do. Or for those that purchased T2 BPO's, they worked their ass off earning isk to purchase one. I believe that either of those people deserve to have their little bragging right. It's not preventing others from making money. Anyone that believe such is either trying to do invention the wrong way or is just jealous of those that have T2 BPO's and doesn't want to work to get one themselves.


I mean...T2 invention sucks, there's no way to make profit. Anyone looking to start, should look elsewhere b/c there's no money to be made. Curse you T2 BPO's! *shakes fist*

People who fail at market research and/or basic math. => Invention need more than basic math

Who lost :=>urge trader and productor (see the =0.01 isk war and volume of each bid )

who win : => trader only ( they dont care about cost price for product , just need volatility on exchange volume

dont forget the limits of trade and production its the capacity to regenerate the cashflow necessary of operation

[*] my own bpo sleep too since two years, i dont want to delivers gift for trader with the sell stockpile at low price