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[Rubicon] Mass moving in Fleets

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Author
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-10-24 16:06:03 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Karkur, I appreciate all of the work you do on Eve.

That said, the radial menu is not an answer to not having full functionality in the right click menu.

The right click menu is linear, and faster to navigate on the fly. The delay on the radial menu makes it practically useless for situations where timing matters, particularly PvP and many times, taking bridges. If we shorten the delay, then all of us with muscle memory in this game for not using the radial menu will be popping it up constantly. It becomes a hindrance.

I understand that you're probably quite proud of the radial menu, and if it had been in the game from day 1, players would be adjusted to it. But that is not the case, and without having any specific insight outside of watching a TON of player videos I'd say that very few players (who are any good) use the radial menu in PvP situations again due to muscle memory, and the awkwardness of a non-linear control with a delay on it.

To put it differently, if I am doing solo PvP and I am using the radial menu and my opponent is not while being evenly matched in every other regard, I am going to lose. My reaction time will always be slower than my opponent.

Please fix the right click functionality on the watchlist. Thousands of players will thank you for what I think is probably trivial dev work.

What? Perhaps I am used to it, but I love the radial menu. I used it all the time. But, it also depends on what is going on and what happens to be the fastest at that time.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-10-24 16:10:45 UTC
Is there a way to mark someone as a 'Scout' and they will not take any fleet warps? Perhaps even give us the ability to rename it from 'Scout' to whatever we want. Could be useful for titans, gang links, covert ops probers,etc. Big smile
ONE-MAN WOLF-PACK
STACKED DECK
#43 - 2013-10-24 16:14:56 UTC  |  Edited by: ONE-MAN WOLF-PACK
if you make a dev blog for this - perhaps you could make a simple youtube demonstration of you using these features?

I say this because

1) im not that smart

2) a lot of people have been using this feature for a while and might need some "monkey see monkey do" to change some habits - I've observed recently people discovering new(ish) usability features from the last few releases as they aren't visually apparent they've been enhanced
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2013-10-24 17:27:14 UTC
Sounds Great :)

One thing I would like to see however is some more logged information. Specifically I would like a note in the fleet lock for who abandons wrecks. In large fleets this can cause significant lag, and while petitioning it for intentionally causing lag is an option, a far easier one would just be to know who it was.

The other one that I'd like to see is when someone moves themselves (during free move).. atm I think we get something like X became member of squad, or somesuch.. I'd like to see X moved from Y Squad to Z Squad. Or when Free move is off, X was moved from Y squad to X squad by A.

Would be great if they could be done :)
Porucznik Borewicz
GreenSwarm
#45 - 2013-10-24 19:18:36 UTC
Saeka Tyr wrote:
Nice! Will have to test that...

In the spirit of improving fleet management there's two things folks would like to see. Could you tell us the feasibility of them?

* Jumping from watchlist.

Blackops and titans can be added to watchlists, but when they open the bridge you have to click on the ship itself in space/overview. This is annoying and can be error prone. Using the watchlist would solve this but is not currently possible.

* Fleet bookmarks

It would be amazing if a commander could load up one of your stored fleets, and have a set of fleet-specific bookmarks.

No more wasting time messing with bookmarks. Everybody has the same thing - because the FC already set it up, and saved it.

That would, quite simply, be epic for fleets.

+1

Especially the "more in space" functionality from the Watchlist window.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#46 - 2013-10-24 20:24:28 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
CCP karkur wrote:
Hi all

In my devblog thread and in a thread I started here in the test forum (as well as on Twitter), FCs that manage large fleets asked for the ability to load up stored fleet setups so they wouldn't need to type in the names over and over, so I've added that, although it's in a bit simple and limited form.


omg i love you i love you I LOVE YOU!

CCP karkur wrote:

Other things

  • the fleet comp window will now display what ships docked pilots are in
  • the fleet comp window now lists which wing/squad each member is in, and the list can be sorted by that column.



seriously the 1st one is going to help soooo much for the FC's that want to get their fleet into a fight quick without having to wait for people to reship because various elements in a fleet comp isnt quite there in numbers! thank you Karkur! ur amazing as always!
Debir Achen
Makiriemi Holdings
#47 - 2013-10-25 00:53:13 UTC
Five more features I'd love to see:

(1) 'swap position with me': someone in a command position can swap positions with a subordinate

(2) bugfix: Currently, you can't drag someone to the bottom* of the watchlist - you have to drag them to the second last position and then drag the other person up. (* I might have this the wrong way round, and you can't drag to the top - not running EvE at the moment).

(3) split fleet: select a wing or squad and create a new fleet based on that wing or squad, moving all current members

(4) merge fleet: this one would be trickier, but it would be wonderful to be able to join one fleet into another, adding squads to an existing wing or wings to an existing fleet. I suspect the interaction would go:
- boss of "big" fleet creates advert, and provides it to boss of other fleet
- boss of joining fleet clicks on advert, and gets message "you are already part of a fleet - do you want your fleet to join?"
- if OK, boss of "big" fleet gets message: "X is trying to merge his/her fleet of N members / squads / wings into your fleet. Please select a squad / wing / fleet for them to join" and a menu box with the various fleet slots and OK / reject buttons. They select the appropriate container and hit OK, and the other fleet is imported.

(5) Move entire squads between wings ("move squad to" option like "move member to"), though the mass drag function might allow this.

Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature?

Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-10-25 01:09:32 UTC
Debir Achen wrote:
(4) merge fleet

This would be wonderful. Fleets merge often in time-critical situations (reinforcements joining a fight, two fleets joining against a bigger threat...), having the possibility to quickly and painlessly merge fleets would be wonderful.
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#49 - 2013-10-25 02:34:52 UTC
HEY! This is my thing! CCP did a thing of mine! *does a dance*

I hearby second/third/whatever the motions to continue adding more functionality to this, specifically (off the top of my head)
- Free move on/off gets saved
- Fleet settings (allow corp members, allow alliance, etc) get saved
- Fleet advert (name/display) get saved
- MOTD would be nice
- I think renaming squads/removing/renaming wings would be good. I.E. loaded setup should be EXACTLY the same as the saved setup.
- Allow exporting/importing saved fleets

Seriously though, this is going to save SO MUCH CLICKING! Thank you!
Wyatt Maulerant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2013-10-25 04:15:07 UTC
Very cool.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#51 - 2013-10-25 04:16:05 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
What? Perhaps I am used to it, but I love the radial menu. I used it all the time. But, it also depends on what is going on and what happens to be the fastest at that time.

That's your prerogative. Very few PvPers (afaict) use it for PvP.

And the problem with Karkur's position, is that she isn't giving us a choice on what the situation is. She's saying, if you want that functionality, you can ONLY get it from the radial menu.

Which as you also understand, isn't the right tool for every job.

I get the obsession with the radial menu. It's for touch interfaces in the future. Unfortunately, Eve isn't a game where the finer points of piloting and combat can be accomplished with a touch screen like interface.

I suspect our esteemed CCP colleagues don't play this game at that level or in those situations that they would immediately recognize the sort of feedback I am attempting to share.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays

Desparo
Oberon Incorporated
Fedaykin.
#52 - 2013-10-25 05:38:27 UTC
Love seeing that some of these ideas are being kicked around.

While your improving fleets could you fix some of the bugs and improve on some of the current operations.

-Auto reconnecting after disconnecting. This almost never happens. This should be good for like 15mins. I don't know how many people can get reconnect in less then 60secs on a consistent basis.

-Fleet invite lasting more then 60secs. 15mins again would make more sense 15mins. A feature you could add would be to cancel a fleet invite.
Shamus en Divalone
The Clandestine Forge
#53 - 2013-10-25 07:21:10 UTC
Awesome stuff! +1

Is it possible to have an option to 'warp fleet' but the warp doesn't happen til the last/slowest ship is aligned and upto speed rdy to warp?
Neotin Nahrain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2013-10-25 07:49:58 UTC
Dragging people from overview to fleet watch list would REALLY help a fellow null sec and our fast form ups.
Right now i have to select people types (in my case all logi and dictor/recon) and then do
Right click + Pilot + Fleet + Add to watch list - 15 times ...
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#55 - 2013-10-25 08:27:42 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
And the problem with Karkur's position, is that she isn't giving us a choice on what the situation is. She's saying, if you want that functionality, you can ONLY get it from the radial menu.

Which as you also understand, isn't the right tool for every job.

I get the obsession with the radial menu. It's for touch interfaces in the future. Unfortunately, Eve isn't a game where the finer points of piloting and combat can be accomplished with a touch screen like interface.

I suspect our esteemed CCP colleagues don't play this game at that level or in those situations that they would immediately recognize the sort of feedback I am attempting to share.
I'm sorry for trying to help you by telling you what's available.

I know not everyone uses the Radial menu, and that's fine, that's you choice. But now I'm going to try to help you again, and I'm not being obsessed about the Radial Menu....
Quote:
If we shorten the delay, then all of us with muscle memory in this game for not using the radial menu will be popping it up constantly. It becomes a hindrance.
You can set the delay to max, so it won't be popping up constantly. You can then have a shortcut (I use SHIFT), that bypasses the shortcut and brings up the Radial menu right away on the object you are trying to orbit or whatever.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#56 - 2013-10-25 08:29:26 UTC
Desparo wrote:
Love seeing that some of these ideas are being kicked around.

While your improving fleets could you fix some of the bugs and improve on some of the current operations.

-Auto reconnecting after disconnecting. This almost never happens. This should be good for like 15mins. I don't know how many people can get reconnect in less then 60secs on a consistent basis.

-Fleet invite lasting more then 60secs. 15mins again would make more sense 15mins. A feature you could add would be to cancel a fleet invite.
When an invitation is open, the position in the squad is reserved. So you could lose a lot of spots in the fleet with that.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#57 - 2013-10-25 08:36:38 UTC
Neotin Nahrain wrote:
Dragging people from overview to fleet watch list would REALLY help a fellow null sec and our fast form ups.
Right now i have to select people types (in my case all logi and dictor/recon) and then do
Right click + Pilot + Fleet + Add to watch list - 15 times ...

To be honest, I'm really hesitant to add any sort of dragging to the overview, I feel like we need to think it through a little bit better what it would mean Game Design wise (would that mean I could drag people to chat to call targets? would we want that at all? also, does it hurt overview performance? etc.)

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#58 - 2013-10-25 13:09:14 UTC

Love it.

You're more infallible than the Pope, you can do nothing wrong!

Where I am.

Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#59 - 2013-10-25 13:50:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
CCP karkur wrote:
Neotin Nahrain wrote:
Dragging people from overview to fleet watch list would REALLY help a fellow null sec and our fast form ups.
Right now i have to select people types (in my case all logi and dictor/recon) and then do
Right click + Pilot + Fleet + Add to watch list - 15 times ...

To be honest, I'm really hesitant to add any sort of dragging to the overview, I feel like we need to think it through a little bit better what it would mean Game Design wise (would that mean I could drag people to chat to call targets? would we want that at all? also, does it hurt overview performance? etc.)


What you just said inspired an idea.

Idea : create an alternate "Fleet History" "window" when in fleet that pops up with a visual of the target being called as a GUI item, resembling a locked target (but obviously different) so that there is a nice clear and easy to click indication of the fleet target. Also, for people who want logistics they get a similar thing except for shields being called.

The problem is that the fleet history place and line entries are like the most horrible UN-immersive part of fleet combat. Who wants to stare at a list of scrolling text entries to find the targets / friendlies they need to rep?

I understand this is a game design issue - but that would be a solid UI action to tackle. Also, that little window area could be used to drop things such as "warp to" from celestial, targets from the overview lets say, and so on. It would have quick actionables that would facilitate fleet targets/coordination.

I'll do a mockup.

Only thing I forgot to add was prioritization. But, it would show range to you (so you can prioritize the prioritized targets for yourself). I didn't bother, but I UNDERSTAND that you can not show the healthbars on all the prioritized targets due to server load issues and scalabiity - so you can remove that. However, I'm confident you can show the other information. Hopefully this gives you some ideas of your own.

http://i.imgur.com/Z5wPfjS.jpg

Where I am.

Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#60 - 2013-10-26 00:19:56 UTC
I love all the new changes and can't wait to use them!

While you are fussing around in fleet code, any chance you can add some shortcuts/key bindings to the following broadcasts?

- Align to
- Warp to
- Jump to

Right now, whenever I broadcast align, warp or jump orders, I have to right-click to broadcast each of these. You can imagine the actual physical pain that can develop in your hand after four or five hours of right-click broadcasting. We have the ability to assign shortcut keys to just about all other broadcasts, but not these ones.

Please, oh please, save me and all the other XOs/FCs out there from right-click hell!

Thanks!

GG

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

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