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Station trading at a standstill
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Imadude Ortii
Sandy Hay Inc.
#1 - 2013-10-24 15:09:31 UTC
Since this is my first post, hello fellow capsuleers Big smile7. Been playing this game since June now and loving it.

Like many of you, I have a station trading alt in Jita and I've been pretty successful. However, I've noticed a trend in my trading. I will have 2-3 days of minimal profits (~20-50mi) and then one day of good profits (~150m). I can't seem to break this pattern. I've got ~2 billion to my name now and I do a pretty good job of keeping ~3-4 billion in orders placed. I know that if I invest in more products, I can increase my profits but I've got ~40 different products I trade in already which is really all that I can take. Any more than that would burn me out. So my questions really are...

1) Is there any way to make my profits more consistent? As in ~100mil every day as opposed to the up and down pattern it is now.
2) Is there any way to increase my daily profits without expanding the number of products I'm trading in?

Basically, I just want to know what the next step is. Don't get me wrong, a plex about every week is ok with me but I feel like I'm missing something here. Thanks in advance everyone Smile.
Kristoffon vonDrake
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#2 - 2013-10-24 15:28:02 UTC
1) Is there any way to make my profits more consistent? As in ~100mil every day as opposed to the up and down pattern it is now.

Diversify. It's the so-called "law of large numbers" from statistics. One item will fluctuate a lot. When you have lots of items their fluctuations will cancel each other out and you'll see a consistent result.

2) Is there any way to increase my daily profits without expanding the number of products I'm trading in?

Yes but that's secret.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-10-24 15:34:21 UTC
if we are talking purely station trading, the only way to increase your profits is to to trade more (and better) items. it's not a secret that some items are more profitable than others but most people will not tell you which ones are (other than the usual suspects like T2 modules).
if you have time on your hands, you can branch out into region trading (region wide buy orders, haul to jita for profit), inter-region trading(buying in one region, selling in another), manufacturing, patch speculation and so on.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
#4 - 2013-10-24 15:35:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Grendell
A few tips I could give you is this:


  • Analyze the items you trade in and see which are the least profitable, and replace them. You should be doing this regularly
  • Always research new items to trade, never stop looking for better options.
  • Something that was bad to trade last week might be profitable to trade this week.
  • Don't let your isk sit idle on a non profitable trade. Sometimes it makes more sense to lose a little profit to use the capital on a profitable item
  • If time is an issue, another option is to move to a smaller hub where the margins might be bigger, but sales might be smaller.


That should help you a bit, enjoy :)

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SJ Astralana
Syncore
#5 - 2013-10-26 13:46:04 UTC
Here's why your profit spikes: At a hard-to-determine interval, prices spike. You can .01 until you're blue in the face and make squat, or walk away for a day or even longer, and find that the prices spiked and you made the larger profit anyway. Look at the graphs, and you'll see this to be true. If you expand your portfolio and be less hands on, you'll make almost as you make .01 isking for far less effort.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-10-26 15:22:06 UTC
EVE is in a bit of a slump right now anyway... happens after every summer and/or after an especially dull "expansion".

Lots of good advice above ^^^ and, if investing in a longer term "portfolio" or "basket" appeals to you, you may also want to take advantage of current low prices in some commodities in the hopes that prices will swing over the next couple of expansions.

To each his own, and, as always, Caveat Emptor.

Blink


"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#7 - 2013-10-26 17:45:50 UTC
I generally have a long list of items which have a decent margin (10% or so for high volume, more for lower volume), and then go through and pick 10 or so of those a day which I actively trade.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#8 - 2013-10-26 21:10:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Diomedes Calypso
SJ Astralana wrote:
Here's why your profit spikes: At a hard-to-determine interval, prices spike. You can .01 until you're blue in the face and make squat, or walk away for a day or even longer, and find that the prices spiked and you made the larger profit anyway. Look at the graphs, and you'll see this to be true. If you expand your portfolio and be less hands on, you'll make almost as you make .01 isking for far less effort.


My advice is most similar to this one but the other five above have equally good points with different nuances of focus

1. I've made much bigger margins and ultimately higher return on capital waiting for the market to move to my sell price that is based on ranges I know I'll see rather than lockstep .01 on either side of current market
1a. I can't prove that
1b. .01 is still great within that approach when bid ask is wide enough based on your developed knowledge of an item aided by the price range table. Do not ignore daily volume and how that can help you make educated guesses on whether some producer dumped to much. Or if there was manipulation or if you need to be cautious about a long tershift in perceived utility by end users
1c. Keep looking for new sweet spots
1d . If you have a few dozen items you track. Suddenly an item that had it's margins squeezed will be restored. The is a thin number of participants. One guy who previously dominated a product getting lazy or taking a break can suddenly make a high volume item sweeter than ever

2. As others have mentioned explore other hubs. When you already know jita for an item you can have a lot more confidence in manipulating or taking larger position s relative to the hubs volume knowing that you can ditch it in jita if necessary.

3. Time value. If you have other ways to make isk or non station trading things to do. When your items deserve patience. Make isk your other ways mend fences. Explore for other sweet spots that don't need to be touched even once a week etc
3.a. if you can't do some patient trading I would say you are under capitalized. Other income produ ing activities like exploration o.o. ratting and especially incursions if you have access to any can still meaningfully help your trading base even if you can only tolerate them in low doses

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Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#9 - 2013-10-26 22:10:38 UTC
I ll name two items that I believe are now permanently wrecked ( due to changes in game mechanics) as illustration of onen or two items I station traded in the past.

Small diminishing power disrupters and 200 mm compressed coil guns.

With both of those I could suck up hundreds in ammar. Sell many in amarr in the 900k range ignoring lowerr prices on lots of 10 or 12 or even 50 although I would selectively try to shake out those bellow with agressive .01 tatics to feel out how weak they were. . II'd be patient with more(also dependant on if I was in the mood to .01 those days - I play for fun and what is fun for me varies day to day week to eek). Once in awhile id move a few hundred to jita and leave them on the market way above the ask price. .at my swing price near 900

Those would have been "paid for" with the 200 percent margins I was getting more regularly but at lower volume in amarr

Once I saw some sell I might start baby sitting that jita price more but there would be three day period where I would move a few hundred.

I took a few year break from the game...the compressed guns were permanently wrecked but years lste the small diminished still worked. But oddly the most recent buff seems to make their meta less ideal (could also be a shift in cpu power of end ship)

Sweet spot - I experiment with regional buy orders in many named items I trade. The regional price I offer must be low enough that I can ignore or even trash items at places thst will never be worth the time to pick them up unless other such experiments over time have enough crap there to pickup once a year

In that experimentation. . When I suspected the region had a mission thst dropped something. Id then cancel wider buy orders and mske them station only. I found that there wss one starter system, deepari, where they dropped and new players were happy to sell at 150 k

Now. This isnt huge isk but it wss something where I could take 4 jumps each way and pick them up and sell them within a month for a 50 million isk profit. It really was twice that as there was another item in the same station with even better liquidity and ften larger margins until. After years, another couple participants discovered it.

When plex were 300 million each that 100 millio a month sweet spot for the one chsr. On top of other really was significant. And took almost no attention except if I felt like getting them semi afk.

Fun. Discovery of those little golden eggs is fun for me production isn't fun for me but it is fun for others

This is a game. Maximize fun and let roi slip when maximizing it isn't fun. Fun first

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