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A video that shows exactly why Falcon (and/or ECM) needs a nerf.

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cpu939
Blueprint Haus
Blades of Grass
#61 - 2013-10-22 01:13:40 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
#DEATH2ALLFALCONS


Sad



we all know your just a blackbird with a paint job

Quote:
yeah, but those are logical, reasonable conclusions.


the OP isn't interested in logic or reason.


i have to agree
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#62 - 2013-10-22 01:51:52 UTC
cpu939 wrote:
Quote:
yeah, but those are logical, reasonable conclusions.

the OP isn't interested in logic or reason.

i have to agree

*shrug*

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Cynter DeVries
Spheroidal Projections
#63 - 2013-10-22 03:21:08 UTC
OP's Raven was equipped with the following...

Cynter's Law of feature suggestion: Thou shalt not suggest NPCs do something players could do instead.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#64 - 2013-10-22 03:29:02 UTC
Cynter DeVries wrote:
OP's Raven was equipped with the following...

Tech 2 Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2013-10-22 07:12:52 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Cynter DeVries wrote:
OP's Raven was equipped with the following...

Tech 2 Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers

That works sometimes !

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#66 - 2013-10-22 08:06:15 UTC
Maliandra wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOzR0tEXjhA

As you can see a single falcon was able to keep the majority of the gang target jammed for the duration of the fight. That is a severe balance issue. Yes you can fit ECCM but that doesn't magically mean ECM/Falcon are balanced.

Let's assume for a second we take scenarios where all the target ships are not fitted for any EWAR reduction. Now let's consider the other forms of EWAR and T2 electronic ships. You can certainly do anything from cap neuting to target range reduction to the point where you take 1 ship out of the fight. Maybe, maybe 2 ships. But that's it. You can never, with any other electronic ship, do anything as effective as was seen in this video.

Does that mean Falcons cannot be killed? Of course not. In this case the pilot kept range. Being able to be killed does not mean balanced.

Does a Falcon always give you the best advantage? Again, no, and that is why other ship types get used on occasion. But that does not mean it's none the less balanced. As stated the balance issue comes from the fact that no other EWAR setup has the capability to be as effective as the Falcon does at their best.

The effectiveness of each given EWAR setup within an ideal scenario specific to that EWAR type should always equate to the effectiveness of the other EWAR setups within ideal scenarios for those EWAR types. The same should apply to the least ideal scenarios; all forms of EWAR being as ineffective as one another.

I would love to see them balance it like this.

For every jammed target 5 Falcons get primaried in the first 6 seconds of a smallgang fight.

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Kaiia Gavlas Thessia
Ravens' Nest
#67 - 2013-10-22 08:26:20 UTC
Hate falcons? Then use falcons as well. Even the playing field.

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Morniee
Barbs Hammer
Xenta.
#68 - 2013-10-22 10:06:06 UTC
Shocked My god man... Those tengus in the video, are not using the sensor streght subsystem, nor using ECCM.... What would you expect that a anty Caldari Fitted falcon would do...

they could have ditched the falcon, if they were using the Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequence, instead of Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate.

ECM has ben nerfed.
Just keep in mind that most Wh fleets, use it, because of the limited size fights, and counter it.
Bruce Kemp
Suddenly taken over
#69 - 2013-10-22 11:14:31 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
There are a sufficient quantity of counters already in game.
It's not CCP's problem if the players don't use them effectively.



This OP, did any of you have counter measures fitted????

I'm guessing no,

if you were all fitted to the hilt with counter measures and the falcon still jammed you then yes it would be overpowered. Roll
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-10-22 11:27:29 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
It recruits an Ishtar pilot for its gang, or it gets the jam again.

Want to like twice
Oxylan
Blood Fanatics
#71 - 2013-10-22 11:29:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxylan
because of falcon


Ps. Ecm and falcon was nerfed some time ago... they just still dangerus...

If it bleed we can kill it.
Serenum
Red Cross Marauders
#72 - 2013-10-22 12:25:43 UTC
ECM has always been hated because of its massive impact on small gang and solo players

when you start flying in fleets of 10+ people its not as much of a problem
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#73 - 2013-10-22 12:31:54 UTC
ECM? So passe.

It is all about TD and damps.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#74 - 2013-10-22 14:22:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Serenum wrote:
ECM has always been hated because of its massive impact on small gang and solo players

when you start flying in fleets of 10+ people its not as much of a problem


The falcon works in a ratio of targeting systems to falcons. The tengu has 1 targeting system, the ishtar has 6. ie bring 10 tengus against a consist with 2 falcons and this result may still occur.

I would expect that drone aggro for sleepers would be very intermittent with 4 tengus on the field, so if they chose a 4 tengu, 1 shield ishtar consist they'd probably always heads up beat a 4 and 5 man cloaky gang, and it probably wouldn't really affect their PVE effectiveness much.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-10-23 07:40:44 UTC
Tbh any of the HACs with a pilot trained in sensor comp will crap all over falcons too with their new sensor strengths.
John Holt
State War Academy
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-10-23 07:49:10 UTC
If you're firing missiles use Auto Missiles. The take down falcons with one or two hits.

Done my time in null sec, now I'm just a Privateer wandering around High and Low Sec.
Jonas Cooke
Frozen Silver.
Nomad Alliance
#77 - 2013-10-23 11:24:03 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
There are a sufficient quantity of counters already in game.
It's not CCP's problem if the players don't use them effectively.


This. Very few people actually use ECCM, so it actually prooves that it's either not worth the midslot because it's not good enough, or because its easier to use other tactics to deal with the jammer.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-10-23 11:26:39 UTC
Jonas Cooke wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
There are a sufficient quantity of counters already in game.
It's not CCP's problem if the players don't use them effectively.


This. Very few people actually use ECCM, so it actually prooves that it's either not worth the midslot because it's not good enough, or because its easier to use other tactics to deal with the jammer.


Crying on the forums requires 0 PG, 0 CPU and no slots. Lol
Rab See
Stellar Dynamics
#79 - 2013-10-23 12:07:10 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
The all new and shiny nerf to T2 ECM ships is called Bastion mode and it's going live in novembre, I think.


Yup - Minmatar - cant web it, but its 'stopped' so thats moot.

I'm assuming target painting fails - do they go all matt black using bastion?

But can confirm - no TD, Damp, Jam, Web.


As for Falcon - remove racial jammers getting jam on other ships types. It ewar is singular is negating the ability to apply damage to it, or its gang ... cant do that with any other ewar boat.

And/Or ..

Rapier adjust - its a shield tanker, so move one low to mid to run more than 'two' of its racial types - its limited to webbing 2 ships. or having no tank. Its EWAR slots are badly imbalanced or give it more lows + T2 armour resists to be a proper armour tank.

Buff Zoo - more of the above, although its armour tank means it can use more mids.

Pilgrim - it works, uses highs and lows for ewar. Lotso slots.

Falcon - it works, especially with a 'decent' armour tank - midslot ewar - orama.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#80 - 2013-10-23 12:50:16 UTC
Krimishkev wrote:
Eos bonus increases sensor strength by a fair ammount.

Eos bonus increases ECM strength by a fair ammount :P

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