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So, with links going on grid can we fix drug boosters?

Author
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#1 - 2013-09-24 23:15:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Are drug boosters fine as they are? If not, how would you improve them?

Drugs can provide a boost for small skirmish gangs and solo players. This will become more important with links going on grid Soon. Current booster mechanics are bad since many people simply do not undock if they get a side-effect. Players in station instead of spaceships = bad.

So, how could booster mechanics be improved while still maintaining strong consequences?

Penalty mechanics: Version 1
- Penalties levels are unchanged but do not last the entire boosting period (eg ten minutes).
- The ‘penalty window’ appears at a random time during the boosting period. You are not notified immediately of any penalty when you take the booster.
- The penalty severity fades in and out so you don’t get hit immediately during a fight. This could operate in a similar way to the heat mechanic (i.e. damage over time) but go both ways. Alternatively, there is a warning prior to the penalty kicking in. Timer at top left.
- Consider clone death as a low chance penalty for the strongest boosters.

This would not give people a reason to stay docked when they take a booster. When the penalty appears the incentive to dock would be highly situational. Maybe you are just roaming about looking for a fight. Maybe your penalty is reduced enough for you to be comfortable with taking a fight. “5% tracking reduction with Ions? Should be OK…”

Penalty mechanics: Version 2
- As above but penalties are reduced and stack in the case of multiple boosters being used at the same time.

Learning boosters
- Learning implants are anti-PvP for noobs. They are terrible.
- Add learning boosters (different strengths) and remove learning implants. If your clone dies you lose the boost but this would not be as expensive as implants. This might also work from a ‘psychology of loss’ angle since boosters are temporary by nature whereas implants are permanent. I don’t know, I’m not that sort of doctor...
- Learning booster implant duration is affected by the Biology skill as per usual but with longer time periods (e.g. a one week increment per skill level).
- Learning boosters (and only learning boosters) are not contraband. Think of them as the equivalent of alcohol or nicotine.

Control
- Allow all boosters to be contracted despite being contraband. You can sell them on the market so this is a daft restriction.
- Consider a system where players scan and flag smugglers as suspect rather than using NPC customs.

Production
- I have little knowledge about production but from what I hear it should probably be easier.
- Consider limiting production to lowsec. Why? Because I like lowsec.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-09-24 23:29:08 UTC
Sorry just had to :)

"Drugs are bad, M'Kay"

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#3 - 2013-09-25 11:11:32 UTC
Ha, I should have expected that one. Big smile

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#4 - 2013-10-10 10:10:15 UTC
Does anyone know if the new siphon whatsit will steal drug lab stuff?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Jureth22
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-10-10 10:37:59 UTC
who said links are going on grid?stop spreading lies
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#6 - 2013-10-10 10:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Jureth22 wrote:
who said links are going on grid?stop spreading lies


Fozzie. Declarations of War podcast episode 58, right at the start.

Don't call me a liar. You are uninformed. I changed the title just for you.

Edit: here is my paraphrasing from about 8.45 in:

Fozzie: 'This is not the last change we'll be making to gang links. What you're seeing is very similar to what we did with tech, a change in preparation for a bigger change.'

AK: 'Are you at liberty to say what that is? Will it be something that affects links tangentially?'

Fozzie (and this is a direct transcription): "You're gonna need to have them on grid. So that's a very non-tangental change."

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-10-10 14:04:33 UTC
I think they're fine tbh. Generally not that common and super powerful for a few edge cases and the people who use them.
cearaen
Plus 10 NV
#8 - 2013-10-10 14:09:08 UTC
I tend to think drugs work pretty well. I'm not aware of anyone refusing to undock due to a bad side effect. I might fly a different ship if I get a bad side effect but I don't think I ever refused to undock.

That said if this is an issue then one solution I saw was that you could take another dose of the same drug and it would "reroll" your chance of getting a penalty. This might get expensive and also tends to make the drugs addictive. Sort of like - well drugs.

That seemed like a decent idea. But really I think drugs are pretty much fine.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#9 - 2013-10-10 14:11:37 UTC
Zappity wrote:


Current booster mechanics are bad since many people simply do not undock if they get a side-effect.


Do people do this? I use boosters situationally, rather than pre-emptively. I don't take them before a fight starts, I take them during a fight if needed.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#10 - 2013-10-10 14:30:21 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Zappity wrote:


Current booster mechanics are bad since many people simply do not undock if they get a side-effect.


Do people do this? I use boosters situationally, rather than pre-emptively. I don't take them before a fight starts, I take them during a fight if needed.


CCP Rise mentioned on a recent Daily Roam episode that he got penalties three rolls in a row with the result that he didn't undock at all that night.

But no one said he was normal... Big smile

I usually try to use them situationally too. I say 'try' because I always forget that I have the damn things with me!

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Jasmine Assasin
The Holy Rollers
#11 - 2013-10-10 15:03:53 UTC
Drugs always seemed to me to be more of a hassle than a help. The least they could do is put a timer on the screen for them, make them easier to produce/move around, and make them contractable.

And I would only consider those things "a good start" toward fixing them.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#12 - 2013-10-10 16:00:17 UTC
I thought the idea of boosters were that they are used in desperate situations where the problems created by side effects were of less concern than winning. An argument could be made for the side effects being too severe but I think their probability once the appropriate implants are in and skills trained are acceptable
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#13 - 2013-10-10 16:26:56 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Zappity wrote:


Current booster mechanics are bad since many people simply do not undock if they get a side-effect.


Do people do this? I use boosters situationally, rather than pre-emptively. I don't take them before a fight starts, I take them during a fight if needed.


Likewise hence having neurotoxin recovery/control trained up. But then living in w-space does kind of change that aspect of it a bit.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2013-10-10 16:39:10 UTC
I like drugs

(in game)

.

Mister Tuggles
Dickhead Corner
#15 - 2013-10-21 09:40:33 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
Zappity wrote:


Current booster mechanics are bad since many people simply do not undock if they get a side-effect.


Do people do this? I use boosters situationally, rather than pre-emptively. I don't take them before a fight starts, I take them during a fight if needed.


CCP Rise mentioned on a recent Daily Roam episode that he got penalties three rolls in a row with the result that he didn't undock at all that night.

But no one said he was normal... Big smile

I usually try to use them situationally too. I say 'try' because I always forget that I have the damn things with me!




That is why there are skills that reduce the chance of side effect, and reduce the severity of the side effect. Drugs are fine in their current state. They offer the whole risk vs reward thing this game is supposedly balanced off of.

Would I like to see more drugs/easier way to obtain the materials to make drugs? Yes, but no changes are actually needed to the current set of drugs we have.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#16 - 2013-10-21 10:37:56 UTC
CCP talked a good year or two ago about removing booster penalties entirely. It got a pretty negative reception, because it just pushed boosters into being "mandatory", in the same rather sad way that links have become. So they scrapped that idea.

So there's scope for changing how booster penalties work, but not for removing them or making them less meaningful. One idea floated about was to have the penalties kick in after the booster had worn off - unless you took another booster! But these penalties would have to carefully designed - a brief penalty that lasts a few hours would be gone next time that you logged in, while a longer penalty would just act as a deterrent to doing stuff, if it affected combat stats.

Maybe if it affected your attributes and hence your SP/hr - that would be a meaningful penalty that would not deter combat?
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#17 - 2013-10-21 11:46:34 UTC
Introduce the antidote!
removes all booster effects good or bad and adds a 10-30min effect to taking another booster to prevent "booster swapping" < although this might not even be an issue but rather a nice game mechanic to be able to swap boosters at will

could come in different strengths like current boosters but idk if that wouldn't be just adding complexity for the sake of it

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#18 - 2013-10-23 09:23:20 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
CCP talked a good year or two ago about removing booster penalties entirely. It got a pretty negative reception, because it just pushed boosters into being "mandatory", in the same rather sad way that links have become. So they scrapped that idea.

So there's scope for changing how booster penalties work, but not for removing them or making them less meaningful. One idea floated about was to have the penalties kick in after the booster had worn off - unless you took another booster! But these penalties would have to carefully designed - a brief penalty that lasts a few hours would be gone next time that you logged in, while a longer penalty would just act as a deterrent to doing stuff, if it affected combat stats.

Maybe if it affected your attributes and hence your SP/hr - that would be a meaningful penalty that would not deter combat?

Yeah, definitely don't want to see boosters become mandatory. Penalties are good but tricky to do in a way that doesn't discourage you from actually flying after you've taken them.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#19 - 2013-10-23 09:40:18 UTC
I don't know if you knew it but combat boosters that give you a "side effect" will not break your boat and those effects only last 10 minutes..

So all you need to do is take a pill and -ooops side effect Straight now wait 10 minutes and undock.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#20 - 2013-10-23 10:06:51 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
now wait 10 minutes and undock.

Any mechanic that makes you wait before undocking is a bad mechanic.

I thought the side effects lasted the duration of the booster, not just 10 minutes? I could easily be wrong, though.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

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