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Help with L4 mission runner

Author
Racciella Bloodrayne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-10-22 15:31:16 UTC
Just wondering what the fastest L4 mission runner is. I litterally just bought a CNR and this is i think the best fitup i can manage.

[HIGH SLOT]
7x Arbalest Cruise Launcher I
1x prototype Arbalest rapid light launcher I

[MED SLOT]
Adaptive Invul Field II
2x mission specific hardners T2's
Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
2x Shield Boost Amplifier I
Prototype 100mn MWD I

[LOW SLOT]
3x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control
2x Power diagnostic system II

[RIGS]
2x Large warhead rigor catalyst I
Large warhead flare catalyst I

[DRONES]
5x Hobgoblin II
5x Hammerhead II
1x berserker I

Using Scourge Missiles i have a whopping 393.6 dps and 100.1 drone dps
This leaves me with 3606 PG and 39 CPU. Cap seems to be ok as long as i give a small pause between groups when possible to let it recharge slightly.


I'm working on the skills to use t2 shield boost amps, booster and t2 launchers. I've only run 1 L4 with it so far (unauthorized military presence iirc) and it was really easy, but i know some of them can be a bit rougher.

If there is a better way to make my CNR faster or even a better option for a ship then please, thoughts and suggestions are welcome :)
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-10-22 15:42:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
i can kinda sorta see why you put the RLML on there, but in practice, a set of light drones should be perfectly capable to deal with frigate targets. also, having eight cruise launchers and good skills will allow you to oneshot everything smaller than a battleship, so aim for that. iirc, three T1 rigors are better then 2xrigor and 1x flare, but the difference is negligible.

your low slots look strange to me. if you have 3k spare power grid, i do not see why you would need power diagnostics. if you have trouble with cap, a capacitor booster in the mids will help you much more than power diagnostics. put four BCSs and either a signal amplifier or a damage control on there for maximum pewpewpew.

you are probably aware of it, but your fit shows the signs of insufficient SP. get your skills up to snuff and enjoy 900+ missile dps and a comfortable tank.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#3 - 2013-10-22 15:44:32 UTC
Under absolutely no circumstances should you not fit a full 8 cruise launchers. You must fit 8. Do not deviate from this. If you're low on CPU, there's plenty of CPU savings to be had by changing one of your mission specific hardeners to dread gurista or caldari navy (like 20-30m, big cpu savings, same performance as t2).

you're leaving a lot of DPS on the field if those are the numbers you're getting. need cruise missiles 4, caldari battleship 4, missile support skills to 4 ASAP.

You're probably better off with a third mission specific hardener in place of a second SBA.

You might try an afterburner instead of a MWD, it doesn't hurt your tank as much, you have very long range. Also, its not like you're going to kill a whole room before you can get to the gate anyway. If you want the MWD to get away from rats (i don't think this is the case as you're very tanked), then you should consider a MJD.

the single berserker i does nothing for you. Bring a flight of salvage drones or extra hobs/hammers.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Racciella Bloodrayne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-10-22 15:54:21 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
i can kinda sorta see why you put the RLML on there, but in practice, a set of light drones should be perfectly capable to deal with frigate targets. also, having eight cruise launchers and good skills will allow you to oneshot everything smaller than a battleship, so aim for that. iirc, three T1 rigors are better then 2xrigor and 1x flare, but the difference is negligible.

your low slots look strange to me. if you have 3k spare power grid, i do not see why you would need power diagnostics. if you have trouble with cap, a capacitor booster in the mids will help you much more than power diagnostics. put four BCSs and either a signal amplifier or a damage control on there for maximum pewpewpew.

you are probably aware of it, but your fit shows the signs of insufficient SP. get your skills up to snuff and enjoy 900+ missile dps and a comfortable tank.


I'm still relatively new here so i'm learning how these systems go as i play.

The main reason for the 2x power diagnostics is for the boost in shield hp, recharge rate, cap recharge rate and cap. I figured a 4th BCS would be a waste since it would only be a small boost.

What you recommend replacing in the mids if i was to try out a cap booster?

I do like the idea of a signal amp to help with range...i think my max targeting range atm is around 86km even though my cruises can travel 155km.

And yes i am very lacking in SP and isk....and patience lol. Mining with 2 alts has gotten extremely boring and l3's are way way too slow to try and make any amount of isk from.

Would it be safe to box L4's with my alt in a drake...would it make any real difference...and my alt is way more lacking in SP than i am too unfortunately btw.
Racciella Bloodrayne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-10-22 16:06:00 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Under absolutely no circumstances should you not fit a full 8 cruise launchers. You must fit 8. Do not deviate from this. If you're low on CPU, there's plenty of CPU savings to be had by changing one of your mission specific hardeners to dread gurista or caldari navy (like 20-30m, big cpu savings, same performance as t2).

you're leaving a lot of DPS on the field if those are the numbers you're getting. need cruise missiles 4, caldari battleship 4, missile support skills to 4 ASAP.

You're probably better off with a third mission specific hardener in place of a second SBA.

You might try an afterburner instead of a MWD, it doesn't hurt your tank as much, you have very long range. Also, its not like you're going to kill a whole room before you can get to the gate anyway. If you want the MWD to get away from rats (i don't think this is the case as you're very tanked), then you should consider a MJD.

the single berserker i does nothing for you. Bring a flight of salvage drones or extra hobs/hammers.


ok with 8 Cruises fit i have 17 CPU left and 2206 PG. Brings my launcher dps up to 425.6 I could probably buy faction ammo to boost this a bit...but thats going to kill profits from missions a bit.

I have the skills you mentioned training now...the longest being l4 caldari battleships....5 days.

Main reason for MWD instead of AB is just speed. I'd like to be able to get through these as quickly as possible....and i thought i read somewhere that after one of the last updates that mwd doesn't effect...or doesn't have as much effect on sig radius on raven anymore....might be wrong.
Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#6 - 2013-10-22 16:30:11 UTC
sig radius doesn't matter that much because everything is going to smack you for full damage anyway. If it works fine with the MWD there's no reason to get rid of it. But I was thinking the mwd doesn't save you much time anyway since you can hit anything as soon as you land on grid and if you have an afterburner you'll get to the next gate sooner than you can kill everything anyway (usually). The MWD does put a signficant burden on your capacitor however.

IMO cap booster setups can work but they're much better suited towards setups/characters that can put out much higher DPS to the point of killing stuff before they go through very many cap charges.

Power diag systems are good for shield ships even if you don't need the powergrid (cruise ships are never short on PG). Faction ships have improved base HP, so the combination of bonuses from the power diagnostics definitely are useful, even though you're not regen-tanking. If your tank doesn't feel strained, the sigamp will give you additional range, targetting speed, and 2 extra max targets (IF you have the targetting skills to manage more than 7).

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

SoldierSister
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#7 - 2013-10-22 16:32:31 UTC
IMO

8 x cruise launchers

I would drop the MWD for an AB due to the cap penalty you get off MWD's


I would fit an X-Large shield booster and drop 1 x shield boost AMP

in the amp spot you dropped I would fit Target painter

I would fit 4 x BC's and if you can depending on you cpu and PG fit a DCU will give you a bit mire tank

in the rigs I run cap control circuits x3 just so the cap recharge is faster so you can use shield booster more often.

also Hobgoblins are your friend

note.. using a Shield booster don't boost to full shields once your shields get to 1/3 boost up to between 2/3's and 3/4 shields this maximizes the increased shield recharge rate.

Disclaimer

I am in Vegas at minute so can't run this build through EFT but pretty sure it's close to my fit off top if my head.

Maxx Phobos
#8 - 2013-10-22 16:36:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Maxx Phobos
[Raven Navy Issue, 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
[empty low slot-----] Do what ever you want here Cap Flux coil to make cap stable, Drone link or another dmg mod your choice
Damage Control II

Large Shield Booster II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Cap Recharger II , Can swap to another painter ( drops cap down to 11-12 minutes which is plenty )
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile , Can fit with Arby's and run faction ammo for decent dps
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I , Can swap out for Missile rig of your choice , I was running a Rigor on mine before Odyssey
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5 or Hornet II whichever you like ..

about 900-950 dps nothing special
840 dps tank ( VS Guristas ) and 19 min cap ( more than you'll ever need )

this is an older fit i used to run , i have since switched to gun boats cause i got bored of missiles but should serve as a good template for what works fairly well
Racciella Bloodrayne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-10-22 16:40:31 UTC
Maxx Phobos wrote:
[Raven Navy Issue, 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
[empty low slot-----] Do what ever you want here Cap Flux coil to make cap stable, Drone link or another dmg mod your choice
Damage Control II

Large Shield Booster II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Cap Recharger II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I , Can swap out for Missile rig of your choice , I was running a Rigor on mine before Odyssey
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5

about 950 dps nothing special
840 dps tank ( VS Guristas ) and 19 min cap ( more than you'll ever need )


Looks like a sweet build to aim for but i don't have the skills yet to even come close
Maxx Phobos
#10 - 2013-10-22 16:45:57 UTC
Racciella Bloodrayne wrote:
Maxx Phobos wrote:
[Raven Navy Issue, 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
[empty low slot-----] Do what ever you want here Cap Flux coil to make cap stable, Drone link or another dmg mod your choice
Damage Control II

Large Shield Booster II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Cap Recharger II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I , Can swap out for Missile rig of your choice , I was running a Rigor on mine before Odyssey
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5

about 950 dps nothing special
840 dps tank ( VS Guristas ) and 19 min cap ( more than you'll ever need )


Looks like a sweet build to aim for but i don't have the skills yet to even come close


you can run meta 4 stuff until you get the skills .. it only gets better with better fittings
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-10-22 16:46:02 UTC
- lvl3s can be moderately profitable if you have good skills. there was a thread in M&C just recently where the OP showed some numbers that came together to ~50m/hour. depending on your skills etc. it may be better to just grind up lvl3s instead of suffering through lvl4s.
- the majority of lvl4 missions does not require you to travel at all, especially with navy raven (150km range w00t).
- for those few missions that do require travel, an afterburner will do until you have the skills and experience to know WTF you're doing.
- do not waste ISK on faction missiles. just try to get T2 launchers and get fury for battleships and precision for cruisers/frigates.
- all the advantages a power diagnostics gives you sound nice on paper but other than the power grid, they are not very relevant in missions or easier to achieve with other means. for example, a medium cap booster (instead of your MWD) will solve all your cap problems and allows you to be generous with shield boosting, which in turn makes shield buffer and passive shield recharge irrelevant.
- on the other hand, more damage is more damage is more damage. the fourth BCS will add another ~10% missile dps which means faster mission times which means moar ISK.

and lastly: this is the ships&modules forum. people come here to ask about ships and modules. there is no reason to be apologetic.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-10-22 16:51:53 UTC
Maxx Phobos wrote:
[Raven Navy Issue, 1]
...


there is no good reason to run with capacitor rigs. the damage application that you lose by not using rigors is not worth any cap you might get out of the CCCs. this is especially the case in your fit where you have only one target painter and enough CPU and power grid to fit even a large cap booster easily.

on a side note, cap rechargers are almost always a bad choice, except on a few amarr ships with very strong base capacitors.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Maxx Phobos
#13 - 2013-10-22 16:54:28 UTC
I just recently started playing around with a Rail Ferox and am plowing through level 3's , quite amazed at how good that ship is now , i'm almost willing to bet I can make close to the same ( isk / hour ) as I was getting with L4's

But yeah shield recharge on Battleships isn't very good, Best to have high resists and a good shield booster / Decent cap or fit cap booster for those Oh**** moments , The better your dps the less you have to worry about incoming dmg as well.
Maxx Phobos
#14 - 2013-10-22 16:58:39 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Maxx Phobos wrote:
[Raven Navy Issue, 1]
...


there is no good reason to run with capacitor rigs. the damage application that you lose by not using rigors is not worth any cap you might get out of the CCCs. this is especially the case in your fit where you have only one target painter and enough CPU and power grid to fit even a large cap booster easily.

on a side note, cap rechargers are almost always a bad choice, except on a few amarr ships with very strong base capacitors.



I run rigors personally but before i had skills to increase my dps the cap rigs served me better which is why i put them on there being that his skills don't allow for ultra high dmg , Thinking about it i probably should have put T1 fit rather but either way it works and there are many more ways to fit a CNR which gives him room to adapt it to suit his needs.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-10-22 17:07:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
i was bored so i took the time to slap together a CNR fit:

[Raven Navy Issue]

[High Slots]
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II

[Med Slots]
Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I - Cap Booster 800
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Sensor Booster II - Scan Resolution Script

[Low Slots]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

[Rigs]
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


- the sensor booster is a gimmick. you can use it to boost your sensor strength to get jammed less often or to lock and kill things faster. it is also easy on CPU. you can replace it with a target painter if you have trouble killing cruisers, but on a high end fit, a SeBo is really nice to have.

- the damage control is a safety net. you can replace it with a signal amplifier or even a drone damage amp once you feel comfortable. you can also save CPU by fitting the (more expensive) internal forcefield array.

- as has been stated before, you can save CPU by fitting faction hardeners (and once you're rich, faction BCSs).

edit: this fit will deal up to 888dps before implants and faction BCSs. while this does not sound like much on paper, it can compete very well in practice, as it has much less problems with damage application and range compared to other (turret) ships.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Racciella Bloodrayne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-10-22 17:16:48 UTC
I totally forgot about implants to augment damage etc...
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#17 - 2013-10-22 17:42:18 UTC
Racciella Bloodrayne wrote:


And yes i am very lacking in SP and isk....and patience lol.


You need to develop patience. EVE is a patient player's game.

Being impatient leads quickly to burn out and frustration. It can lead to costly mistakes that set you back (like how back in the day I rush to do The AE bonus room and lost my 1st CNR lol). Learn how to live within your means, learn how cool "cheapsakting" in EVE is (pvping with destroyers and cruisers, doing low sec plexes with nothing more than a drake etc etc).

The best stuff will come in time, but you have to give it time. EVE is not an instant gratification game (Thank Icelandic pagan Gods).
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-10-22 18:06:19 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
- the sensor booster is a gimmick. you can use it to boost your sensor strength to get jammed less often or to lock and kill things faster. it is also easy on CPU. you can replace it with a target painter if you have trouble killing cruisers, but on a high end fit, a SeBo is really nice to have.

Sensor boosters just let you lock things faster and/or things that are further away. They have no effect on the chance that you will get jammed. I think you are thinking of an ECCM.

That said a scan res scripted sebo is really nice to have once you start pouring out silly amounts of DPS from your guns.
Khira Kitamatsu
#19 - 2013-10-23 04:13:50 UTC
OK this is our CNR fit - nothing much can touch you since you are sniping from over 150km away.

[Raven Navy Issue]

[High Slots]
8 x Arb Cruise Launchers - you are doing level 4's not PvP and Arb launchers are fine. Use appropriate missile for whatever faction you are going up against.

[Med Slots] - [Change kinetic and thermic shield enhancers when needed for different factions]
Kinetic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Thermic Deflection Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II - more than one of this is not needed - waste of CPU and doesn't add enough over all to make up the difference in wasted CPU.
Sensor Booster II - Scan Resolution Script
Micro Jump Drive - jump 100km away - start shooting.

[Low Slots]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

[Rigs]
Large Core Defense Field Extender 1
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

[Drones]
Use whatever is appropriate for the mission - I have found that if you use level 2 scout drones they get targeted and shot up a lot. Best to just use level 1's - they can easily take out frigates and can even take out destroyers.


This fit allows for you to take hits from NPC ships without worry of being taken out. With your distance and firepower - there is not a level 4 you cannot solo in this build.

Ponies!  We need more ponies!

Charles Panzram
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-10-23 12:28:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Charles Panzram
[High slots]

8x Arbalest Cruise Missile Launcher

[Mid Slots]

3x hardeners mission specific or whatever floats your boat
1x Gist B Type Large Shield Booster, cost effective ( ~250mill), cap easy
1x MJD
1x Shield Boost Amp.
1x Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron / or Sensor Booster II

[Low Slots]
3x Caldary Navy Ballistic Control
1x Ballistic Control II (4th is already heavily stacking penalized, no need to waste extra isks on it, you get a whooping +4 DPS if you use a 4th CN one)
1x Damage Control II / Signal Amplifier II whatever you prefer (in case you use a sebo II I´d run with the DC but thats just me)

[Rigs]

3x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

[Drones]
15x Hobgoblin II (can´t have enough spares these days) I find that no matter what frigate rats you encounter Hobgoblins are the best choice to get rid of those, webbers, scrammers etc.