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Missions & Complexes

 
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Exploration Sites and My Opinion of Them (Better Title)

Author
Buzz Madullier
The Essence of Nike
#1 - 2013-10-21 20:36:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzz Madullier
Ok, I am pretty new to the game as you can tell, but I have had a very fun time doing exploration and trading to get me started in production and stuff to make some Isk. Though there are a few things that have been troubling me...

1. Exploration (finding the sites) is really, really easy. In fact I just found a low sec Relic site in about 20 seconds after entering system. I launched my probes off the gate, saw the red bubble near a cluster of moons/plantes, scanned at 2 AU and then scanned at 1 AU and got the site all in like I said, 20 or so seconds. I only have my scanning skills at 3 too.

It seems that they are way too easy to find since they are already "found" for you. On top of that they are way too easy to scan down. I mean any rudementary idea of how probes work... you know what... scratch that. All you have to do is set your probes to the pre-defined "Launch Spread Formation" and move them in closer to where they overlap, put the AU range down to about 2-4 and scan over a cluster of planets and stuff around where the red sphere is and you are golden.

2) Minesweeper with stupid random properties...

90% of the time I succeed in hacking/analyzing nodes. Sometimes I am just really lucky and sometimes I actually had to make good decisions to make it to the end. Other times... it is just random nonsense that makes completing it impossible. I wish I could record or remember to take a series of screenshots, but I will try to illustrate my last one:

http://i.imgur.com/XaLqFL7.png

Pretty much a Picaso, I know. AV = Anti-Virus, S = Spiky Restore Node thing, FW = Firewall.

WTF? Why are some of these impossible while others have the "Data Core" (the thing you are trying to find) like the 2nd node off the start?

I suggest making it like Minesweeper classic. Complete the board, give numbers to show bombs nearby. Though in Minesweeper anything over intermediate becomes a guessing game.

3) Is the cargo scanner even reliable? For the most part, about 90% of the time I will get all or most of what comes up in the cargo scanner. Sometimes I get this:

Black smudges everywhere... http://i.imgur.com/E5CmfVK.png?1

I mean.. why even have that one :P

Other times I cargo scan a data core, and 2 blue disk things. I collect all the parts containers and only end up getting the data cores. But CCP said that "Parts" containers strictly drop the Decryptors and Datacores as seen here:

Data Sites
Parts Containers
Decryptors
Datacores
Spatial Attunement Unit
Scraps Containers
Spatial Attunement Unit


So what gives? Why so much random properties?


You make them super easy to scan down, and then fill the players ability to get anything with random dice rolls? What is this WoW ?


EDIT: About the small cans...


A couple or few things I have noticed about the small cans that is very irritable.

First off it seems rigged. I know after doing a cargo scan that in an example analyzed wreckage that I should be able to get X number of different types of T1/T2 salvage. These salvage materials only drop from Material and Parts cans. So when I scan some wrecks and see 1 or 2 pieces of T1/T2 salvage total why is it that I never get it until the 2nd or 3rd Materials or Parts can is vacuumed into my ship? This first can 90% of the time is always Carbon from materials or Electronic Parts from the Parts can. If I vacuum a 2nd parts can after the first I will likely get the Salvage materials, but almost never on the first. It also does this with blueprints which specifically drop from Data cans. The first or second Data can I vacuum are almost always data sheets and then the third will finally be the blueprint.

So it feels rigged to give you less chance of success to get what you should be getting. This is especially annoying when you have wrecks with 9 different types of slavage 3 of which being T2 salvage and you got passed the luck check that is the ****** Minesweeper board and it spews out like 15 cans almost all Parts and Materials. In fact there will be either exactly 9 Parts and Materials cans and even so the first 2 or 3 mixed of Parts and Materials vacuumed will be trash items. So therefor their really weren't enough cans to have all the materials from the scan and it even further seems that the first 1-2 cans have just a base high chance of providing junk rewards. It is almost clockwork that when I do "novice" hacks/analyzes (ones with 1 or 2 things) that I get the desired salvage, BPC, or Skill Book on the second or third can vacuumed. To me its obviously rigged.

Another thing about the small cans is that their is a delay on vacuuming the can in. I have clicked on cans that were between 2500m and 2750m just to see them blink and go out of the 3000m range and be lost. The delay seems random and sometimes they activate before I even have the last can completely secured and others it happens like I said before. Also they seems to vacuum at different speeds. When they are real close it sometimes takes longer to finish securing the close can than it does when trying to secure one that was started out at 2000m. Again this feels to me that it is rigged to keep from being able to secure all cans.

There is an implant that allows the cans to stay alive longer, while it helps it is rarely that much of a help. You might secure 1 or 2 more cans if you are lucky. Also all the implant does is allow them to stay active for 5 more sec at which most of them will be out of your range to begin with within the normal allotted time. Which brings me to another point...

Why does the wreckage/hacked site spit out cans more than once, in different directions, and at different speeds? Why do the cans disappear at different speeds?

I think some of this frustration could be relieved by allowing you to add the small cans to the overview. Oh well, Not like CCP is ever going to read this.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2 - 2013-10-21 21:33:05 UTC
carbon, scrap metal, and batteries don't show up on cargo scan. I think if you get an empty cargo scan it just means there's nothing notable to get.

on the minigame, the placement is somewhat random, so depending on the order you choose it might be harder or easier. Having higher skills makes it so the harder times are still easy. Turning the game into minesweeper would be dumb.

As for scanning being too easy, manually readjusting probes and the camera and manually arranging the same formation each system for dozens of systems was not what I would call "compelling gameplay." Maybe they could have given us the formations without giving us the general location of each sig, but there are certain game design objective achieved by doing so.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Buzz Madullier
The Essence of Nike
#3 - 2013-10-21 21:42:31 UTC
Batelle wrote:
carbon, scrap metal, and batteries don't show up on cargo scan. I think if you get an empty cargo scan it just means there's nothing notable to get.

on the minigame, the placement is somewhat random, so depending on the order you choose it might be harder or easier. Having higher skills makes it so the harder times are still easy. Turning the game into minesweeper would be dumb.

As for scanning being too easy, manually readjusting probes and the camera and manually arranging the same formation each system for dozens of systems was not what I would call "compelling gameplay." Maybe they could have given us the formations without giving us the general location of each sig, but there are certain game design objective achieved by doing so.


At least Minesweeper actually uses some logic in its algorithms when making a board. In each game of minesweeper I almost never have to actually "guess" on intermediate, never have to "guess" on beginner, and only have to "guess" 1-3 times on advanced. With the current in game system there is no rhyme or reason on how the board is set up. They are however in three different categories similar to minesweeper though. They have small boards (beginner), medium sized boards (intermediate) and large boards (advanced).

But the main difference again is in the algorithm. They need to be smarter and while "random" is something that can't be fixed without making repetitive boards it could be optomized.

Crash Lander
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-10-21 22:04:17 UTC
Welcome to Eve PvE, half ass, half implemented stuff, and don't worry sooner or later you are going to get a dev response along the lines of "We are iterating on it" and "there will be more features soon(tm)".
Buzz Madullier
The Essence of Nike
#5 - 2013-10-21 23:35:37 UTC
I think this helps solidify my point. Where I marked "AV" is where I had to attack an Anti-Virus to be able to go in one of the three directions. Of course the next node was another AV which killed me. What the ****!?

http://i.imgur.com/Tgs0Yx2.png?1
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-10-21 23:41:11 UTC
RNG. Results not guaranteed.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#7 - 2013-10-22 00:08:50 UTC
Buzz Madullier wrote:


90% of the time I succeed in hacking/analyzing nodes. Sometimes I am just really lucky and sometimes I actually had to make good decisions to make it to the end. Other times... it is just random nonsense that makes completing it impossible. I wish I could record or remember to take a series of screenshots, but I will try to illustrate my last one:

.
.
.


You make them super easy to scan down, and then fill the players ability to get anything with random dice rolls? What is this WoW ?


I (now) use a T2 analyser fitted rigged helios, and it has failed exactly one ruins and no databanks since I got the T2 skills. Whilst the game is random, and its possible to fail, its also a "play the percentages" strategy game which when played properly with 2 chances to win, failure is actually very remote.

In fact the only ruins I've failed was because I had to kill a heron to get at it, and he'd used up one of the runs. Fortunately he dropped more than 60m of loot, which was greater than what was in the ruins :)
Buzz Madullier
The Essence of Nike
#8 - 2013-10-22 19:12:30 UTC
Added discussion about the small cans in OP.