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Hi-sec profits need to be nerfed in order to expand player activity into low/null

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#81 - 2013-10-21 14:56:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Hisec out of balance, ROFL! The issue is that some people think that!

Why do you want to force people who have different game drivers to play full on your game. I spend most of my time in 0.0 and I see no need to push people to go to 0.0 by nerfing their game experience, they should go to 0.0 because they want to and can do it, in fact CCP made a very good move with the personal structures because it enables people to create a base in 0.0 which is key. If that personal structure is usable then you will see more people in 0.0, however there are some that will never go to 0.0, and why can't you leave them to get on and enjoy the game as they want to play it, do you want to make everyone as miserable as you lot?

The Goons should be focussed on winning 0.0, instead of whining about hisec.

EDIT: I should be clear here on what I mean by leave them to play as they want, like many I do not think that hisec should be safe, I think as it is now is quite good though a few slight changes could be made, but its basically there.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#82 - 2013-10-21 15:04:13 UTC
ITT: OP has performed another successful drive-by-trolling. And apparently Malcanis is a lord of vomit. Is that how he keeps that svelte physique?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#83 - 2013-10-21 15:09:44 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
ITT: OP has performed another successful drive-by-trolling. And apparently Malcanis is a lord of vomit. Is that how he keeps that svelte physique?


You mean he is bulmeric, I hope not, though it would explain why he is always so grumpy!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2013-10-21 15:12:10 UTC
Xavier Higdon wrote:
While the OP failed to give a single reason for nerfing high sec that makes sense, he did give a few for banning ISBoxer and other multiboxing tools. I'm a part of a high sec mining fleet for at least a couple of hours every day and I can tell you I bring in about 15 to 20 million an hour. With T1 mining crystals and the Orca boosts I get 1880 m3 per 121.8 second cycle. After an asteroid is depleted I have to manually switch my strip miner to a new asteroid. But that's okay, since I have a single Mackinaw. My friend has a few barges/exhumers and he too has to manually switch targets. Now another guy we know has 40 accounts. He uses ISBoxer to automatically target, lock and mine a single rock with all 40 of his barges. He takes in far more ISK per ship than us simply because he saves so much time by only having to input a single command to get all 40 of his ships to act. If he had to actually play all 40 accounts, he'd make far less than us because of the time lost changing clients and entering individual commands. That's what the OP means when they say mining. He's not talking about a group of friends talking on TS3 whilst their lasers cycle. He's probably a middle aged man, likely from the US like I am, that's probably on some sort of government assistance(disability or welfare), which unfortunately I'm not, likely overweight, and he definitely spends a lot of timing thinking the wealthy owe him something. This man is likely unhappy, has been divorced, and trends towards anti-social behavior. Obviously playing a multiplayer game with 50 pretend friends isn't helping. We must help these people! Ban ISBoxer so that he can be freed from his parents' basement, and maybe see a real human being again!

He's paying either 600 dollars per month or 24 billion for those accounts why shouldn't he mine more than you?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#85 - 2013-10-21 15:15:30 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Xavier Higdon wrote:
While the OP failed to give a single reason for nerfing high sec that makes sense, he did give a few for banning ISBoxer and other multiboxing tools. I'm a part of a high sec mining fleet for at least a couple of hours every day and I can tell you I bring in about 15 to 20 million an hour. With T1 mining crystals and the Orca boosts I get 1880 m3 per 121.8 second cycle. After an asteroid is depleted I have to manually switch my strip miner to a new asteroid. But that's okay, since I have a single Mackinaw. My friend has a few barges/exhumers and he too has to manually switch targets. Now another guy we know has 40 accounts. He uses ISBoxer to automatically target, lock and mine a single rock with all 40 of his barges. He takes in far more ISK per ship than us simply because he saves so much time by only having to input a single command to get all 40 of his ships to act. If he had to actually play all 40 accounts, he'd make far less than us because of the time lost changing clients and entering individual commands. That's what the OP means when they say mining. He's not talking about a group of friends talking on TS3 whilst their lasers cycle. He's probably a middle aged man, likely from the US like I am, that's probably on some sort of government assistance(disability or welfare), which unfortunately I'm not, likely overweight, and he definitely spends a lot of timing thinking the wealthy owe him something. This man is likely unhappy, has been divorced, and trends towards anti-social behavior. Obviously playing a multiplayer game with 50 pretend friends isn't helping. We must help these people! Ban ISBoxer so that he can be freed from his parents' basement, and maybe see a real human being again!

He's paying either 600 dollars per month or 24 billion for those accounts why shouldn't he mine more than you?




I would rather that the multi-boxers, if they are as described above (who the heck knows?), be playing Eve and/or paying lots of money on subs rather than out in the world pushing collectivism or some crap religion (as if there was a difference).

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
SoldierSister
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2013-10-21 15:16:25 UTC  |  Edited by: SoldierSister
I read upto the we earn billions mining, which came after I'm a hi sec carebear.

2 things...

1 you can't force people to PvP they will either settle for less Isk as there not really losing ship's or get bored and quit game.

2. you have billions of isk and don't go into low/null often which you stated at the start of your post.

So now I'm confused, you have earnt billions sit in hi sec then ask for it to be nerfed when you don't really leave it. Why even start this thread? just get your self out of hi sec and into a C5 wormhole when you can start another thread asking for those to be nerfed also....You see were I am going here yes?
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#87 - 2013-10-21 15:19:35 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

I would rather that the multi-boxers, if they are as described above (who the heck knows?), be playing Eve and/or paying lots of money on subs rather than out in the world pushing collectivism or some crap religion (as if there was a difference).



Your fascism betrays you Sirrah


Join the Blood Covenant and all will be revealed to you


Become one with us


In the truest

Possible

Way

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#88 - 2013-10-21 15:40:15 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Xavier Higdon wrote:
While the OP failed to give a single reason for nerfing high sec that makes sense, he did give a few for banning ISBoxer and other multiboxing tools. I'm a part of a high sec mining fleet for at least a couple of hours every day and I can tell you I bring in about 15 to 20 million an hour. With T1 mining crystals and the Orca boosts I get 1880 m3 per 121.8 second cycle. After an asteroid is depleted I have to manually switch my strip miner to a new asteroid. But that's okay, since I have a single Mackinaw. My friend has a few barges/exhumers and he too has to manually switch targets. Now another guy we know has 40 accounts. He uses ISBoxer to automatically target, lock and mine a single rock with all 40 of his barges. He takes in far more ISK per ship than us simply because he saves so much time by only having to input a single command to get all 40 of his ships to act. If he had to actually play all 40 accounts, he'd make far less than us because of the time lost changing clients and entering individual commands. That's what the OP means when they say mining. He's not talking about a group of friends talking on TS3 whilst their lasers cycle. He's probably a middle aged man, likely from the US like I am, that's probably on some sort of government assistance(disability or welfare), which unfortunately I'm not, likely overweight, and he definitely spends a lot of timing thinking the wealthy owe him something. This man is likely unhappy, has been divorced, and trends towards anti-social behavior. Obviously playing a multiplayer game with 50 pretend friends isn't helping. We must help these people! Ban ISBoxer so that he can be freed from his parents' basement, and maybe see a real human being again!

He's paying either 600 dollars per month or 24 billion for those accounts why shouldn't he mine more than you?


WRT ISBoxer, even if the person simply had 40 clients open and had to alt-tab between them, he could spread the mining ships across the belt and get them to target different astroids. If he/she spends 2min with each mining ship before alt tabbing to the next one, then by the time they cycle through every ship and get back to the one they started with, that ship should be just coming due to target new astroids and/or empty the ore hold if timed right.

Alternatively, they could set it all up right away and quickly (no waiting). Then they just keep a wide view of the field and when one of the ship's strippers stop, they just go right to that ship and deal with the situation. It's bit of a juggling act but I can see it being possible.

Either way, they'll have very little wasted time vs someone with just one account to worry about.

Now "they pay for all those accounts why shouldn't they make more"? Well, sure. They should make more isk over all. However, I believe that they should make the same isk/hour/account than someone with just one account.

Just because they choose to pay for a second account doesn't mean they should be able to make 3 times the isk for doing it. That's essentially makes the game pay to win.

Regardless as to why you log in and play, there is an underlying factor shared by everyone. To make isk because without isk, you'll likely not be able to do those other things you do which are the reasons you log in and play.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-10-21 15:43:23 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
We'd at least understand if CCP sees it as an issue and if they have any plans to address it.


"CCP" is a slippery concept here. There are hundreds of people who work for CCP. Some of them most definitely see it as an issue.


All the more reason for a conversation then.

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#90 - 2013-10-21 15:46:04 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
We'd at least understand if CCP sees it as an issue and if they have any plans to address it.


"CCP" is a slippery concept here. There are hundreds of people who work for CCP. Some of them most definitely see it as an issue.


All the more reason for a conversation then.


Hopefully you will include those that don't in this conversation, or it will turn into a 0.0 mothers meeting...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2013-10-21 16:00:42 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
We'd at least understand if CCP sees it as an issue and if they have any plans to address it.


"CCP" is a slippery concept here. There are hundreds of people who work for CCP. Some of them most definitely see it as an issue.


All the more reason for a conversation then.


Hopefully you will include those that don't in this conversation, or it will turn into a 0.0 mothers meeting...


That's the point, there's been 0 communication from CCP about it and its the cause of these threads.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#92 - 2013-10-21 16:17:07 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
We'd at least understand if CCP sees it as an issue and if they have any plans to address it.


"CCP" is a slippery concept here. There are hundreds of people who work for CCP. Some of them most definitely see it as an issue.


The bad part is you probably can;t give us more details than that. Like how big is that "some". If high-sec income was truly seen as a problem, it would of been tackled by a temporary fix until they find a more elegant solution. Right now, nothing is done and to me, that means there is nothing to cahnge because it's how it seems it should be.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#93 - 2013-10-21 16:18:30 UTC
babby's first billion

when you grow up you will realize anything outside of high sec incursions is a joke

Not today spaghetti.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#94 - 2013-10-21 16:22:04 UTC
Sexy Cakes wrote:
high sec incursions



Whats that?


Some new New Order attack pattern?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2013-10-21 16:23:04 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
We'd at least understand if CCP sees it as an issue and if they have any plans to address it.


"CCP" is a slippery concept here. There are hundreds of people who work for CCP. Some of them most definitely see it as an issue.


The bad part is you probably can;t give us more details than that. Like how big is that "some". If high-sec income was truly seen as a problem, it would of been tackled by a temporary fix until they find a more elegant solution. Right now, nothing is done and to me, that means there is nothing to cahnge because it's how it seems it should be.


"Nothings being done because there isn't a problem and this is how its supposed to be," not even going to touch how terrible of an argument that is. You're forgetting that there could be gridlock, half wants to change it half does not so both halves are left at a point of indecision.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Atomic Virulent
Embargo.
#96 - 2013-10-21 16:29:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Atomic Virulent
So what's your plan to 'smoke out' those who make billions MORE than you per month by station trading and NEVER undocking?
What I want to know is how you are making billions from hi-sec missioning. FFS even lvl IVs, if you are employed like myself and have a family and life outside those 2 things, 1 Billion a month would be a miracle.

Believe it or not, most players are in this game to play how they want. Many enjoy being the backbone of the entire game... as in MINING. Force them into PVP and they will just leave the game and go back to selling gems on the WoW AH.

You play how you want and let others play how they want. You have ZERO control and you can't stand it.

If we went with your suggestions, you would only complain that there is too much carebearing in lowsec and everyone needs to be forced into nullsec.. Where, btw, if you didn't know you can make 10x whatever you make in hi-sec with infinitely less work just FYI. If you think hi-sec is so outrageously profitable then you clearly don't know what null-sec is.

You're like a wealthy American billionaire who hates capitalism and seeks to destroy it. "God I HATE this place that made me so rich!!! AARRGGGHHH!!!"
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2013-10-21 16:35:13 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
As for the question of defining a 0.0 splergelord, Malcanis would be a perfect example, I hope that was educational!

'splergelord' must be a great compliment, but can you please tell us what it means

you don't want to know it

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#98 - 2013-10-21 16:38:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Vincent Athena wrote:
The reason many players avoid low and null is not ISK. What they are avoiding is Adrenaline.

For many people the adrenaline rush feels bad and is something to be avoided. Chribba even said he fells that way in his presentation at Eve Vegas. As nothing in the OPs post was geared to reducing the confrontational interactions of low and null, those who do not like adrenaline will continue to play in high accepting what they can get, or move to a different game. What they will not do is move to low or null. Why would they want to play a game that makes them feel bad for fake space money?

High sec needs to be a viable place to play for players who like a calm easy going area with cooperative and competitive interactions with other players.

Low needs to be a viable place to play for those players who like the adrenaline rush that comes from confrontational interactions with other players.

Null needs to be a viable place to play for those who want to empire build, or knock down.

W fits in there somehow, Im not sure how to word it (and I live there.....).


Wormhole = space anarchists in my view.

If i wanted to PvP in EVE, likely i would lean towards Wormhole space.

Anyway, you're right that every security level should have its own sustainable ecosystem, form starting pilots to veteran pilots. The despicable state of hisec gameplay and content to everyone who doens't conforms to what CCP considers appropiate is a crying shame.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2013-10-21 16:40:09 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
This thread again.

Awesome.


Yep, and it'll keep happening until highsec isn't horribly out of balance.


Ugh. But it's so tedious making the same simple data-supported points over and over and oh look, thread #12,053 just got posted by some genius who thinks his ideas are so amazingly original that he couldn't possibly put them into the existing thread on page 3, so let's do it over one more time.

I know that persistence is an essential component of advocating change, but really there comes a point where it does more harm than good. Is anyone going to change their mind because of this thread? Will a single remotely new or original argument be made? Will any new information that wasn't in the 12,052 other threads on this very topic come to light?


what happened? Malkanis actually makes a point Shocked

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#100 - 2013-10-21 16:43:32 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
We'd at least understand if CCP sees it as an issue and if they have any plans to address it.


"CCP" is a slippery concept here. There are hundreds of people who work for CCP. Some of them most definitely see it as an issue.


The bad part is you probably can;t give us more details than that. Like how big is that "some". If high-sec income was truly seen as a problem, it would of been tackled by a temporary fix until they find a more elegant solution. Right now, nothing is done and to me, that means there is nothing to cahnge because it's how it seems it should be.


"Nothings being done because there isn't a problem and this is how its supposed to be," not even going to touch how terrible of an argument that is. You're forgetting that there could be gridlock, half wants to change it half does not so both halves are left at a point of indecision.


The issue here is that the half that want to change it are mainly in 0.0 and seem to want to do it to force those in hisec into 0.0. Those in hisec don't want to go to 0.0 and cannot see why their ISK levels should be nerfed to force them to do something they won't do and ruins their enjoyment by making it harder to gain shiny stuff.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp