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Getting newbies out of their comfort zone

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Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
#21 - 2013-10-19 15:02:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
my general perception of null is that the politics are horrible, people tell you what to do and if a CTA goes out then you have to drop IRL **** to play a feckin videogame.

and that's probably either a complete misconception or a stereotype of a corp/alliance that just plain sucks but i don't think i'm alone in this.


well during fountain war there were many important CTAs
and not only did certain people in a certain alliance totally ignore the CTA to stay at home and carry on ratting
but at least one pilot actually complained that with everyone deployed there would be no one left to save his carrier if he got in trouble Shocked
so, yea
lol
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-10-19 15:19:31 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Wondering when these laughable Corps and Alliances will start requiring Real Life Resumes and curriculum vitae for membership inclusion.

Now thats hilarious. Don't give anyone ideas...LOL

Everyone is always repeating the mantra "Don't Trust Anyone" ad nauseum... If I can't trust the guys I play with, why bother playing with them at all? Fly Solo...
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-10-19 15:25:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
my general perception of null is that the politics are horrible, people tell you what to do and if a CTA goes out then you have to drop IRL **** to play a feckin videogame.

and that's probably either a complete misconception or a stereotype of a corp/alliance that just plain sucks but i don't think i'm alone in this.


well during fountain war there were many important CTAs
and not only did certain people in a certain alliance totally ignore the CTA to stay at home and carry on ratting
but at least one pilot actually complained that with everyone deployed there would be no one left to save his carrier if he got in trouble Shocked
so, yea
lol


hmm, maybe there's a devilishly subtle propaganda campaign to convince everyone that null sec sucks so that they don't get more of that sort of player.

forums.  serious business.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#24 - 2013-10-19 15:31:09 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
my general perception of null is that the politics are horrible, people tell you what to do and if a CTA goes out then you have to drop IRL **** to play a feckin videogame.

and that's probably either a complete misconception or a stereotype of a corp/alliance that just plain sucks but i don't think i'm alone in this.


well during fountain war there were many important CTAs
and not only did certain people in a certain alliance totally ignore the CTA to stay at home and carry on ratting
but at least one pilot actually complained that with everyone deployed there would be no one left to save his carrier if he got in trouble Shocked
so, yea
lol


hmm, maybe there's a devilishly subtle propaganda campaign to convince everyone that null sec sucks so that they don't get more of that sort of player.


It could also be that a lot of the **** they get about being "tyrants" and "facists" and oppressive and such is actually one of the single most common things in human interaction.

The have-nots hating on the haves.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-10-19 15:31:26 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
... give them their minimum wage ISK faucets...

I make far more than mimimum wage ISK. And the rest of your post tells me that we aren't important to the game at all just because we want to play solo? Get stuffed...

Everyone is always repeating the mantra "Don't Trust Anyone" ad nauseum... If I can't trust the guys I play with, why bother playing with them at all? Fly Solo...
Anslo
Scope Works
#26 - 2013-10-19 15:38:51 UTC
NPC corp PVP is the most fun I've had on eve in a long time. Blap all the things. No war decs. Fun community. No nutty CEO demanding ****. So no. I'll quit eve before being forced to join a player corp. **** off.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-10-19 15:40:35 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Honestly, clearing up common misconceptions about corps / alliances / lowsec / nullsec would go much further in persuading people to participate than any mechanic changes. It would also be much more difficult than implementing any possible mechanic change.


While I agree that any mechanic change in Eve is fraught with the potential for fiery failure, I would be interested to know what misconceptions you are referring to.



That evil gate campers will kill u as soon as u enter low/null.
That to live in null you must sell your soul to a huge alliance and follow their every order.
That you can make more isk in lvl 4 missions.
That moving around in low/null is hard.
That you need 100 mill SP to even consider PVP

just a few off the top of my head

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#28 - 2013-10-19 15:51:15 UTC
TLDR....

Why do you care about the new players, and their interaction with the game? Why do you insist they must do things that you want them too?

Are you Republican? Shocked

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Jasmine Assasin
The Holy Rollers
#29 - 2013-10-19 16:15:53 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
TLDR....

Why do you care about the new players, and their interaction with the game? Why do you insist they must do things that you want them too?

Are you Republican? Shocked



Are you a Democrat ShockedWhat?
Black Canary Jnr
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-10-19 16:25:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Canary Jnr
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
my general perception of null is that the politics are horrible, people tell you what to do and if a CTA goes out then you have to drop IRL **** to play a feckin videogame.

and that's probably either a complete misconception or a stereotype of a corp/alliance that just plain sucks but i don't think i'm alone in this.


well during fountain war there were many important CTAs
and not only did certain people in a certain alliance totally ignore the CTA to stay at home and carry on ratting
but at least one pilot actually complained that with everyone deployed there would be no one left to save his carrier if he got in trouble Shocked
so, yea
lol


CTA = If you have a couple of hours, real life permiting (show me a corp that does not emphasise RL first?), you go join the CTA fleet. Unless you have like 1 day to get the isk to plex up or are in a bill isk mining link, full virtue set w/e clone you can't clone jump out of, those are reasonable reasons to not be in a CTA and are pretty rare circumstances. 99.99 percent of engagements are not CTAs anyways. Interestingly some alliances have a 'no CTA' policy, these are j4g scrublords, with no souls or intent to stand up for themselves, and a good way to find juicy officer fail fit ships. They usually live in deep null and are called 'renters'.


I hope the ratting carrier guy got kicked and ganked, just for sending out such a scrub message.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2013-10-19 16:30:36 UTC
Ezrothian wrote:
I can't see how any of these ideas would meaningfully change anyone's playstyle. If CCP did this then someone would just make a player Corp with 0% tax for people who want to play solo. You can't force social interaction by changing game mechanics.



Wardecs.

Oh, you mean you'll just reform?

Rinse and repeat until you're worn down.

Welcome to interacting with people.

Or step up and join likeminded people and start learning to flap those wings I guess.

There is no excuse for not playing the game if you log in.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-10-19 16:32:33 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
The problem isn't that people don't want to join corps, the problem is that there is rarely a reason to do so in highsec. Instead of whipping NPC corps, add more content that encourages people to team up. Incursions were a good step in that direction. If you want to specifically promote player corps (as opposed to pick-up groups), create a sort of mini-PDA structure anchorable in highsec that spawns various levels of PvE content for the owning corporation. This should scale between requiring 1 and dozens of players to compete, and provide more income than lvl 4 missions. (omg buff highsec income heresy!)

However no matter what you do there will be people who will simply refuse to fight against or work with other people, regardless of the rewards. But keep in mind that these people still pay their subscription and in turn pay for continual development of the game. They don't deserve any more attention than cattle: give them their minimum wage ISK faucets and harvest them for the subscription money/killmails.



How about limitations?

Learning how to invent and manufacture and play the market is not something a "new player" wants to learn fresh out of the grinder.

So take those away. Incorporate a player corp only access to npc station services.

That'll bring up some incentive.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-10-19 16:35:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
my general perception of null is that the politics are horrible, people tell you what to do and if a CTA goes out then you have to drop IRL **** to play a feckin videogame.

and that's probably either a complete misconception or a stereotype of a corp/alliance that just plain sucks but i don't think i'm alone in this.



Well, in a way you're right, and also far off.

You CAN join a corp that has CTAs and are pretty diehard and gungho, and if that isn't your thing, you chose poorly.

Most corps have an issue with timezones as this is a planetwide game with players from all over.

I have yet to see a CTA from casual/semi casual gameplay that would require anyone to do anything other than just be active when you can.

Usually inactives get purged, or maybe those who don't seem to be a good fit.

Shouldn't be a deterrent from trying to meet new people though.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-10-19 16:47:05 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
Weiland Taur wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Honestly, clearing up common misconceptions about corps / alliances / lowsec / nullsec would go much further in persuading people to participate than any mechanic changes. It would also be much more difficult than implementing any possible mechanic change.


While I agree that any mechanic change in Eve is fraught with the potential for fiery failure, I would be interested to know what misconceptions you are referring to.



That evil gate campers will kill u as soon as u enter low/null.
That to live in null you must sell your soul to a huge alliance and follow their every order.
That you can make more isk in lvl 4 missions.
That moving around in low/null is hard.
That you need 100 mill SP to even consider PVP

just a few off the top of my head



Wait what?

Your third point is only marginally true, but can also be construed as false based on your skillsets and ability.

Everything else is way off the mark. Not ever gate is camped, only some random/rare pipeline or defensive chokepoints get camped.

I don't have a soul to sell, and still have assets scattered all over null from stain to providence to syndicate to pure blind. NPC Null is perfectly fine and fun if you just want to pvp. You sell your soul if you want deep sov (and even then, "soul" is arguable).

Lvl4 missions net you more isk if you can speed through them. If you do not have the sp to skate through like a boss, battleship belt rats will get you more isk in the long run until you can just farm L4s.

I'm barely 25% of the way to 100mil sp, and have lived in null over half my eve life.

Seriously, you can get a lot of information from reading, you can get even more from talking to people.

For those who are unsure, provi has a NRDS policy (which I liked when I was there) and e-uni has some great policies in place too (as much as I want them to undock and be silly more often).


You'd be surprised how many people in this game are cool as hell, even the ones who would gank you. At the end of the day, we all want to just fly a space ship and shoot things.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
xxVastorxx
Invisible Operations
Invisible.
#35 - 2013-10-19 16:47:09 UTC
how to encourage people to leave NPC corps simple CCP allow rookie npc corps to be wardec'd
Velicitia
XS Tech
#36 - 2013-10-19 16:50:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
It's simple. Create an incentive for player corporations to exist and, crucially, persist in hisec. Then new players will have an incentive to leave NPC corps, and hisec corps will have an incentive to recruit them.

Hisec pocos are a start, but hisec desperately needs more organizational rewards and a massive nerfhammer to solo rewards.

This is now a nerf hisec thread.


Improve incentives for the player run corporations, and remove incentives for the NPC corps. Highsec corps really, if you think about it, have very little reason to exist aside from the small benefit of shared resources in a corp hangar. They have no assets worth defending, so they think nothing of dropping corp for a wardec, or just never logging in.

And NPC corps are way too lenient. I believe that after a certain period, perhaps after the first 30 days of paid subscription, your NPC corp should tax you to death. That's a good reason to move to a real corp.

"solo rewards" aren't strictly the problem, though, not as I see it. More of a distinct lack of both carrot and stick vis a vi player and NPC corps.


I kind of like this ... more stuff to fight over, nerf the static content into the ground...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-10-19 16:50:34 UTC
There are 2 hard parts for them to leave the NPC. Trust, and Faith.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#38 - 2013-10-19 16:53:44 UTC
RAIN Arthie wrote:
There are 2 hard parts for them to leave the NPC. Trust, and Faith.

All our newbies :)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Praetor Meles
Black Mount Industrial
Breakpoint.
#39 - 2013-10-19 17:01:34 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
This is now a nerf hisec thread.


Mein Gott in Himmel. I read the OP, and thought "nerf hisec, must comment". First reply in first. Oh well.

[insert random rubbish that irritates you personally] is further evidence that Eve is dying/thriving*

  • delete as required to make your point
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#40 - 2013-10-19 17:29:02 UTC
xxVastorxx wrote:
how to encourage people to leave NPC corps simple CCP allow rookie npc corps to be wardec'd


you want to wardec an empire faction?

brave guy imo.

forums.  serious business.