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EVE Online trending towards pay to win?

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Kate stark
#21 - 2013-10-18 22:42:35 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
until i can directly buy SP, eve is hardly pay to win.


In before 'Character Bazaar.'


until i can directly buy SP to allocate exactly as i wish, and not have to be at the mercy of another person's naming blunder. eve is hardly pay to win.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#22 - 2013-10-18 22:43:51 UTC
Kharush Rova wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
You know this is a subscription based game, right?

Everybody pays. If you don't pay, you can't win.

Mr Epeen Cool


You can play the game for free.


not exactly. while YOU might not be paying rl money...you pay space money for a plex that was purchased with real money that the person that bought the plex was willing to trade their real money purchase for space money.

plex just aren't magically placed into the game, you know. every single one of them is paid for with real money.
Solstice Project's Alt
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-10-18 22:44:37 UTC
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
Kharush Rova wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
You know this is a subscription based game, right?

Everybody pays. If you don't pay, you can't win.

Mr Epeen Cool


You can play the game for free.


not exactly. while YOU might not be paying rl money...you pay space money for a plex that was purchased with real money that the person that bought the plex was willing to trade their real money purchase for space money.

plex just aren't magically placed into the game, you know. every single one of them is paid for with real money.
Besides that, he probably believes "minerals i mine are free" too.

Buy Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD ! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=301266 (this alt-character will get deleted once the sale is done, on 6th of december)
cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#24 - 2013-10-18 22:46:17 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
You know this is a subscription based game, right?

Everybody pays. If you don't pay, you can't win.

Mr Epeen Cool

Well If I mine, I get minerals for free. I can trade those minerals for isk, and I can trade that isk for plex. Therefore, I don't pay, and I can win for free. P


Oh another one of those "minerals are free posts"

Right, you keep telling yourself that....

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#25 - 2013-10-18 22:47:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarod Garamonde
Kharush Rova wrote:


lol seems like I pushed the wrong button.

I wasn't aware of any of this and didn't mean to draw parallels to other games or companies.

I don't even mean to bash CCP here - it was just something I was wrapping my head around ^^

I'll quietly let this post die now.



I will admit that I didn't read your original post until after you said this.
I can see that I jumped the gun a little. But, as I said.... we've seen hundreds of these threads. It's getting old. Yours is a legitimate question, though... so, I'll politely put your mind at ease.

I have been in the military for the majority of my time playing this game. I've had extended field training ops, combat deployments, overseas garrison duties, family problems, and other assorted nonsense that goes along with being a combat-MOS-qualified Soldier in the US Army.
I asked CCP a while back if there was any mechanic by which I could backpay my subscription fees for months I could not log onto EVE and "regain" some or all of my "lost" SP.
The answer I got back was essentially (paraphrasing, here): "thank you for being a loyal and valued customer, but we are so adamantly against pay-to-win scenarios, that we will not even allow so much as that to happen in this game". I actually came out of that conversation seeing things from their point of view, and thought "you know.... that actually makes a lot of sense."

This really is the finest MMO ever crafted, and the only one I have ever or will ever play. And that level of customer service and rigid hold of corporate convictions is one of the many reasons I will remain a part of this community and game world until either I, or it, eventually dies.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#26 - 2013-10-18 22:48:49 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Well I'm pissed off with all of the alts going around, I read on a really reputable site the other day that everybody should have a scouty alt to scout for their pvp main. Stuff like that depresses me more than people buying plex for isk as a way of short cutting the grind that we face to get stuff that we then lose in battle. Doesn't anyone just jump into a system anymore and take their chances?


Seriously?

You have a map, it tells you how many people are in system and how many are docked.
It also tells you if there has been aggression there in the last hour or 24 hours.
It tells you if pods were killed, ships, or NPC.

There are SO many clues.

If you are too lazy to look this up, you deserve to lose a ship.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
Kharush Rova
Artec Industries
#27 - 2013-10-18 22:49:57 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Kharush Rova wrote:


lol seems like I pushed the wrong button.

I wasn't aware of any of this and didn't mean to draw parallels to other games or companies.

I don't even mean to bash CCP here - it was just something I was wrapping my head around ^^

I'll quietly let this post die now.



I will admit that I didn't read your original post until after you said this.
I can see that I jumped the gun a little. But, as I said.... we've seen hundreds of these threads. It's getting old. Yours is a legitimate question, though... so, I'll politely put your mind at ease.

I have been in the military for the majority of my time playing this game. I've had extended field training ops, combat deployments, overseas garrison duties, family problems, and other assorted nonsense that goes along with being a combat-MOS-qualified Soldier in the US Army.
I asked CCP a while back if there was any mechanic by which I could backpay my subscription fees for months I could not log onto EVE and "regain" some or all of my "lost" SP.
The answer I got back was essentially (paraphrasing, here): "thank you for being a loyal and valued customer, but we are so adamantly against pay-to-win scenarios, that we will not even allow so much as that to happen in this game". I actually came out of that conversation seeing things from their point of view, and thought "you know.... that actually makes a lot of sense."

This really is the finest MMO ever crafted, and the only one I have ever or will ever play. And that level of customer service and rigid hold of corporate convictions is one of the many reasons I will remain a part of this community and game world until either I, or it, eventually dies.


Well said - and I'm right behind your warp engines ;-)

*Requesting lock*
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-10-18 22:57:48 UTC
cyndrogen wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Well I'm pissed off with all of the alts going around, I read on a really reputable site the other day that everybody should have a scouty alt to scout for their pvp main. Stuff like that depresses me more than people buying plex for isk as a way of short cutting the grind that we face to get stuff that we then lose in battle. Doesn't anyone just jump into a system anymore and take their chances?


Seriously?

You have a map, it tells you how many people are in system and how many are docked.
It also tells you if there has been aggression there in the last hour or 24 hours.
It tells you if pods were killed, ships, or NPC.

There are SO many clues.

If you are too lazy to look this up, you deserve to lose a ship.


You have oversteped a bit. I have used this myself more than once to catch someone off guard. The map has a delay timer.
Not sure exactly how long it is. I am guessing 15 minutes or so between updates. It is totally possible to check the map and see no one in system warp in and several people are in fact in that system.

Of course the number of jumps in system last hour would give a clue that there is activity here or nearby.
xxVastorxx
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-10-18 22:58:49 UTC
*starts farming alts to have his own alliance made up of his own alts, and finds a way to use 3000 alts at same time in titans and supers.

^^ yep not paying that much to win.
Kialopreyst
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-10-18 23:02:46 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Well If I mine, I get minerals for free.


So your time is worth nothing then?
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#31 - 2013-10-18 23:02:53 UTC
cyndrogen wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Well I'm pissed off with all of the alts going around, I read on a really reputable site the other day that everybody should have a scouty alt to scout for their pvp main. Stuff like that depresses me more than people buying plex for isk as a way of short cutting the grind that we face to get stuff that we then lose in battle. Doesn't anyone just jump into a system anymore and take their chances?


Seriously?

You have a map, it tells you how many people are in system and how many are docked.
It also tells you if there has been aggression there in the last hour or 24 hours.
It tells you if pods were killed, ships, or NPC.

There are SO many clues.

If you are too lazy to look this up, you deserve to lose a ship.


re-read my post instead of jumping to the wrong conclusion.

The point that I am making is that in addition to checking the map etc, people are deploying cloaky alts to scout for their pvp main. I don't do this as I would rather fly with a real person who is willing to scout for me and my gang, or on occasion I will scout for them etc. I firmly believe that your best force multiplier is another person. Hence I am down on alts and multiboxers in general. I fully advocate checking the map and getting your intel from it and no where did I mention losing a ship. However there are times when I am flying on my own that I will look at the map, make judgements from it and then just take my chances and jump into a system solo because unlike some people I am not prepared to admit that solo pvp is dead.

A second account with a cloaky scout is yet another form of pay to win.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Baggo Hammers
#32 - 2013-10-18 23:06:47 UTC
Is Plex new?

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#33 - 2013-10-18 23:55:17 UTC
Kharush Rova wrote:
You can play the game for free.


The Play-to-Pay lifestyle of the account-PLEXing ISK farmer is a long way from "play for free."

Certainly, some people are good at trade and can PLEX their accounts from the loose change left in their pockets at the end of the month, but they're still play-to-pay.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#34 - 2013-10-19 01:00:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
... the infamous mantra being: "GREED IS GOOD"

Roll

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
#35 - 2013-10-19 01:36:40 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


The point that I am making is that in addition to checking the map etc, people are deploying cloaky alts to scout for their pvp main. I don't do this as I would rather fly with a real person who is willing to scout for me and my gang, or on occasion I will scout for them etc. I firmly believe that your best force multiplier is another person. Hence I am down on alts and multiboxers in general. I fully advocate checking the map and getting your intel from it and no where did I mention losing a ship. However there are times when I am flying on my own that I will look at the map, make judgements from it and then just take my chances and jump into a system solo because unlike some people I am not prepared to admit that solo pvp is dead.

A second account with a cloaky scout is yet another form of pay to win.



I would rather fly with a real person too, but not everyone has that option. Between my work schedule and crippling social uncomfortableness. Not to mention the people...

Alts are an unfortunate reality of a game where "trusting people" was something you did before your CEO, and RL friend of years cyno'd you into a red cloud.

Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur. 
Freakdevil
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-10-19 02:01:10 UTC
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
What do you consider winning at eve? No amount of bling in this game makes you immune to getting blown up.
So how can you pay to win?


OP, please read this again, and again, and again..
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#37 - 2013-10-19 02:01:38 UTC
Well, it begs the question...

How is buying plex for real money and selling it in game for isk (essentially turning real money into isk) so someone can buy and fit ship after ship any different to buying the gold ammo in WoT?

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2013-10-19 04:14:22 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Well I'm pissed off with all of the alts going around, I read on a really reputable site the other day that everybody should have a scouty alt to scout for their pvp main. Stuff like that depresses me more than people buying plex for isk as a way of short cutting the grind that we face to get stuff that we then lose in battle. Doesn't anyone just jump into a system anymore and take their chances?

No lol. Not many people who have an expensive ship just jump into another system without an alt.

CCP have set up a system where:

1. You have no way to check whats on the other side.
2. You always land within range of a warp scrambler or disruptor.
3. The map is not accurate at all so can't be used reliably.
4. There's a module in game that fits on a rookie ship that can instantly teleport an immense fleet on top of you without warning.

So jumping solo without a scout is an extremely bad idea for your ships longevity and Im sure its intended to encourage alt accounts aka more required subs. In essence the majority of us actually pay 30 per month for a sub making EvE one of the most expensive sub games around.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#39 - 2013-10-19 04:42:40 UTC
You all have to understand how low-profit an entity CCP is.

This is why I have been advocating the development of single-player PC games based on the EVE universe. There's not much development that needs to be done. The designs are already there. The mechanics are already there. All they need is a suitable engine to base a strategy game, a flight sim (oops..... Valkyrie), or a traditional RPG off of, and enough people to voice act for small compensation (hell, I'd lend my voice in trade for in-game items, tbh).

The idea for a TV show or movie is brilliant, too. I have already given CCP permission to use my character, so long as he's played by John Barrowman. :p

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#40 - 2013-10-19 04:45:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Kharush Rova wrote:
I wanted to roll out this discussion to see what you guys think .

I recently looked at the bigger picture of EVE and was thinking about things like "PLEX", "Simultaneous Alt Training", etc. and I was wondering - is EVE trending towards a "pay to win" scenario?

It's not meant in a bad way - where I'm trying to say CCP is greedy with money or anything.

I know you have a choice to play the game completely for free if you choose to, but the more you invest, the greater the benefits it seems.

Do you guys feel the same or oppose this analogy?

Nope, it's not. Pay to win is: "Buy this super-uber-extra-awesome in-game item/feature not available from other sources/rare drop rate and dominate the field/other characters who don't buy it".

Regarding PLEXes and multi-character training, we already had that since pretty much the beginning. You could always open up an alt account, or two, and do this. The multi-character training feature was suggested and supported by many players since the day PLEX first arrived and does not have a negative impact on the game.

After all, you can still pay $14,95 for an alt character per month (or even take "Power of 2" promo and have it even cheaper) where you get full training queue for your alt, 3 more character slots and the ability to multibox. With multi-character training you are effectively paying $19.95 for a single skill queue, without additional character slots and without the ability to multibox. That's a good tradeoff for having to pay only one subscription if you want those 2 of your trained characters active at all times.

There are many things CCP can introduce that could be sold for PLEX/AUR/$$$ and not switch to "Pay-to-win". Things that would be bought by players, if priced reasonably, of course. Expanding the business is good for CCP, EVE and players, pure greed is not.