Ships & Modules

Hello friends;

I have played EVE Online for going on four years now, and I have seen a lot of threads asking for this or that thing to be nerfed, or claiming that some particular ship, tactic, module, or whatever is broken, overpowered, or what have you. The gamut ranges from requests that some indefinite thing be done about AFK cloaking, that the Falcon be nerfed, that lasers were too good, that super-capital ships were too powerful, and now that Minmatar are the Win-Machines. In each event, it is alleged that whatever specific thing mentioned is somehow "ruining the game," and that things would be so much better if you could just nerf it. Less often, there will be requests for specific things to be buffed or boosted, such as the outcry against Hybrid weapons (and Gallente in general) ever since the Quantum Rise expansion, or the whinges with regards to Projectile weapons prior to the Apocrypha expansion.

Why?

This is a game in which it is literally possible to be or do anything. Absolutely nothing is stopping me, right now, from deciding that I want to be an Amarr Carrier pilot and setting up my skill plan to reflect it. If, on the other hand, I suddenly feel that the way to go is Gallente Command Ships, then I also have the flexibility to set up my skill plan for those ships. If I don't want to wait, then acquiring a character that can fly whatever it is I'd like to fly is as simple as purchasing an existing character for sale on the bazaar. We have so many tools available to us, in EVE Online, to adapt to whatever the current flavor of the month may be, considerably more so than in any other MMO of which I am aware. And yet, to read the forums you'd think we are all locked into class archetypes that take months of grinding to change—as with traditional MMOs like World of Warcraft.

I have often made the comment that EVE players are the best game community on the Internet, but with regards to this specific aspect of our behavior I have to say we are sorely lacking. I would like to propose that we, collectively and as a community, divert our efforts away from statements like "Nerf This!" and towards inquiries such as "What can I do to counter this," or, "How can I exploit whatever mechanic that makes This such a great thing?" I would like to believe that we are capable of overcoming challenges, as our human ingenuity suggests. Surely if our ancestors could conquer new continents and new frontiers, then we can summon the wherewithal to conquer the permutations of an online video game.

With kind regards,

Lyris R. Nairn
Concerned Spacebook Celebrity

An end to nerfs would only lead to everyone using the same handfull of ships and tactics. It's already happening because CCP is too slow to fix things.

If the price of variety is to have whining as a noise background, then it's worth paying.

But when something that's "overpowered" gets nerfed, something immediately fills the void. Last year, drake blobs were the fad and everyone wanted to nerf Drakes. Now it's alpha Maelstroms or whatever and everyone is crying nerf Minmatar. If projectiles get nerfed or hybrids get overbuffed somehow, people will just start crying about whatever becomes the fleet doctrine of the month.

When it comes down to it, there's no way to maintain the variety while keeping the game perfectly balanced. There are too many different variables, and changing one slightly is enough to completely change the result of the equation. Either you fly the fad of the month because it's what's being asked for in fleets, or you accept that you're going to be in an "inferior" ship until the next patch. Of course, "inferior" ships can be game-changers as well. I don't see threads complaining about neuts or ECM or even RRs being overpowered, but all of those can be important in a fleet as well as pure DPS ships.

People use the same handful of ships and tactics because someone innovates a doctrine, it succeeds, and as it gets used, it gets copied, whether by allies or enemies, until it's the dominant doctrine. When someone comes up with a fleet composition that totals the dominant doctrine, the cycle repeats. There's very rarely a need to nerf things in order for the cycle to work, and CCP should have the data-mining capacity to see if something is so vastly overpowered or underpowered that it needs looking at. If you want more variety, get the resources and space to throw fleets into the grinder until you find a functional fleet composition.

Why nerf anything?

I personally think there is a lot of satisfaction to be had in watching my alliance mates log in by the hundreds and slam themselves into super-capital ships in their disposable battle cruisers. Is this indicative of a power imbalance? Sure. Should something be done about it? Yes, and in fact something is being done about it in Crucible. But was it necessary? That's where I am unsure. As a result of the demonstrable ability for Hurricanes en masse to take down super-capitals (as well as some other things specific to or inspired by Goonswarm fleet doctrine), there is presently an outcry that Minmatar is overpowered and needs to be nerfed. This is a picture-perfect example of what I am pointing out, here: A Thing was viewed as being overpowered, then Another Thing came along to beat it so now that other Thing is viewed as being overpowered and needs to be nerfed.

Sure, you can say that I am comparing apples to oranges when I liken Minmatar sub-capitals to super-capitals in general, but the point remains the same—there is a thing, commonly called out as being overpowered and imbalanced, which can and demonstrably has been taken down through numbers, through tactics, or through some other available tool.

We can do so much more than whinge on the forums about imbalances. If we truly believe that A Thing is imbalanced, then perhaps the single best way to force change is to overwhelmingly embrace it or analyse and adopt whatever mechanics make that particular Thing so good and apply it to other Things. Hurricanes with AutoCannons and Medium Energy Neutralizers was the Clusterfuck Coalition's response to the proliferation of super-capitals, and it works; but, with greater or fewer numbers one could just as easily have used Armageddons or Thoraxes to accomplish the same thing.

We have within us, each and every one of us, the capacity for innovative thinking and adaptability. Let us use it!

Whinging on forums just makes us appear weak, lazy, and cowardly.

Overcoming obstacles puts us in control of the game.

Could you please explain why?

I agree, stop "nerfing" and start looking at ships and fits able to counter. What I have seen in EVE is many aren't willing to look outside the box like they use to. EVE is amazing because you can fly any of the 4 races ships as long as you train to do so, and then you can fit it how you please. Most people just fit ships like everyone else, and thats that. Take your time and fit something new and different. I really don't think nerfing is the answer. I haven't seen any ship that truely needs nerfed. The Dramiel is a good point, only people that don't fly them and don't see how to counter them want them nerfed. I have seen MANY Dramiels go pop. Yes isn't ungodly fast, and has great scan res, but it's suppose to and even though I myself rarely fly them, I'm sad to see that they are being nerfed, now less people will fly them and that means I'll have less a chance of popping them haha. All I'm saying before screaming for nerfing, go through different ships and fits, you will be surprised that you will find that can counter the ship you are screaming to be nerfed.

until you smash against an unmovable object and can't go any further.

Sorry.
EVE isn't real.
Some obstacles can't be overcome.

You can't tell a bunch of Caldari engineers to get their acts together and build a decent hybrid ship. Nope, you get CCP to do it.
When one tactic can only be defeated by more players using the same tactic, then the ships must be nerfed so that things get in line.

If a Railgun Ferox gets something like 300dps, how can players make that right? They can't. The ship is terrible.

Also, take the Dramiel for instance.
It effectively made the entire frigate line-up worthless in comparison. How can you beat a Dramiel? A blob of frigates, specialised anti-Dram ships which only work when the Dram falls into the trap (An experienced Dram pilot would decide to easily escape) or a bunch of suicide tacklers with support.
What were CCP's options? Either nerf the Dram or buff everything else, skewing the balance between frigates and other ship classes.


EVE is a game. Players have little control. Give CCP your balance feedback.

So you've beaten the most overpowered frig with the second most overpowered frig. Congratz. Now tell me how you do it with a rifter, incursus or comet, and maybe you'll convince me that your way of thinking doesn't turn Eve into a " Fly FOTM or fly nothing" game.

Don't try to avoid the point by invoking the number argument.

I'll make it clearer for you: How do you kill 20 Dramiels with your 20 rifters?