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Alchemy my dear boy.... its all about alchemy. oh wait isnt that worthless now... nevermind

Yes, finally a gameplay element that favours high degrees of coordination, large numbers, and a willingness to spam and grind structures.

Goons are so screwed.

Just make it so they stop siphoning when full and make it possible to put items into them. Open enemy siphon, fill it with worthless junk, leave it. Problem solved.

This is the definitive proof that CCP has decided that EVE in its current form, with a completely stagnant user base, is just a cash cow to support their console efforts. From now on it's going to be nothing but adding more zero-risk griefing in order to move us further into MOBA spreadsheet territory. I think at this point a lot of people must be realizing that pushing PLEX has become not only CCP's main job, but its only job.

I like the siphons, if people use the systems where their moon goo empire lies they wont have a problem with people spamming these siphons without their knowledge. If people have vast swaths of unoccupied space, as the nullblocs (like Goonswam who is crying all over this thread) do, then this might actually have an impact. A good "use it or loose it" mechanic nullsec has needed for a long time.


+1, I just wish this came out during the reign of technetium.

(Inb4 post about how I'm one of those "grr goons" people)




I thought rule #1 was don't talk about fight club

Hey, saved me the typing I couldnt be assed to do.

Hi5s, brohammer. More structure spam and grind is the last thing nullsec needs.

As a high sec miner, I *love* the concept of lots of 10m isk thingies being blowed up.

It is good for business.

Okay, a lot has been said (with many recurring themes) so let's work through this step by step.

Scenario 1 - Siphon is used to make money.

Requirements: Thief has to place the siphon(s) and be in a position to collect the stolen goods AND transport them to a place for sale.

Taking Neodymium at 30k/unit, siphoning 48 units per hour (20% waste factored in here) comes to 1.44m/hour for one siphon running at max. From what I've read, the other siphon would only be able to claim 32units per hour, 960k/hour. With two siphons running, that is a 20m investment, 2.4m/hour return potential. After 9 cycles, we are seeing a profit.

This means 9 cycles in which:

• The siphon is not destroyed
• The siphon is not looted
• The Thief is not caught
• The thief is able to return to their loot

A longer wait time for more profit also risks being found/looted. As for capacity, that's 80m^3/hour with Neo. 9 hour, 720. Definitely looking at blockade runner volumes.

UNLESS. The Thief comes to the loot every hour or two. More on that later.

Scenario 2 - Siphon used to annoy.

Requirements: Thief has to place the siphon(s). The siphon(s) should be considered lost to the thief, along with contents generated.

Straight up 20m investment for 2 siphons on just 1 POS. The thief is gaining no additional value out of this. The thief may choose to scoop and blow up the loot. If they make any reasonable cash from it, we're moving towards the there for profit. I'll consider a hybrid in a moment. For the POS owner, this is annoying as these modules will just nab stuff, although at 50k hp removing them once found is not too big an issue.

Scenario 3 - Harass and profit.

Catch it, kill it, Thief loses 20m, owner loses 20%-100% of material, depending if a third party steals the loot.

Don't catch it, thief returns, thief has method to collect material. See above for profit time on Neo (R64).

For the thief, this doesn't strike me as all that great a return. For those worried about hundreds being dropped, a covert hauler of 10k could carry 500 of these, costing the thief 5 billion ISK. 5 billion. 250 Poses could be touched in this way, but the cost to the POS owner would take a significant time to reach 5 billion, especially if the owner catches the siphon and loots back upto 80%.

So how about reasonable times to maintain? 1 Thief, 1 POS runner, the thief has the advantage of knowing when they placed the Siphon and can check on the owner to know when they typically come online. With greater investment in intel gathering comes more secure reard.

1 Thief, 4 POS runners. I'm expanding POS runner here to mean someone to whom the POS is blue and would do something regards to removing discovered siphons. 4 people can easily check the POS and, depending on time zones, get a roughly even split. With just a casual d-scan, boom, any active siphons in range are detected and can be isolated.

1 very active thief, 1 inactive POS runner. Thief comes on every hour, scoops the loot. Kudos for being so bloody active, dontcha think? Since when does 1 POS owner become infinitely capable to deal with 1 other player when they don't put in the time?

1 Thief, 4 POS runners, 1 roaming gang. POS has been siphoned for 3 hours, no POS runner has yet detected it, third party comes along and grabs the free goo. Thief is out 20m and no return for 3 hours, POS is out 3 hours goo for not being available.

============

That's scenarios, factoids and other tidbits of interest. In my honest opinion, I feel it not unwarranted to say that those blue (eg, corp, alliance, allies) to the area could do with checking the area with a fleeting directional scan. Anyone passing through can give a quick blink.

You obviously have the issue of blues looting your own POS and leaving the siphon there, profit for themselves as line members sticking it to the man but then that's what happens when people aren't exactly honorable. A potential fix here is to allow the structure to be destroyed and looted, not just looted. Downside for roaming gangs collecting pennies mind you.

Considerations about activity are countered by simply having decent members help out. Just a quick flick across direction scan, oh look, it is clear, move on with life. Welcome to eve, where solo play isn't as easy as group play. Who would have thought it. For a thief to claim their stuff, they have to be more active than the POS owner. Without that activity, they siphon 20% off the POS. Annoying but not game breaking, and market variation can help accommodate that.

• Keep the structures locked in place. A minimum cost is good.
• Remove the ability for anyone to loot the module
• Make the module drop 100% of contents upon destruction

That final point just ensures the 80% return for semi active POS runners, and the looting helps enforce some friendly assistance; although they can still bunk off with the looted goo, they've popped the siphon. Should they wait (to steal more goo for themselves), the thief or POS owner might be back by then.

Thinking this through, it has very little opportunity for profit off installations where the owner/friendlies check the area while giving a somewhat more potent harassment tool. However, the module should be made accessible only by the thief (permission option for corp/alliance?).

Upon a little reflection, this is so benign in its stupidity that i can't really muster the ~care.

After the first couple months of novelty wear off, this feature will be largely unused by anything resembling a guerrilla force, and become yet another tool for the biggest and most organized blocs to structure grief the other side into not logging in for sov wars. If anything, it will hasten a meaningful nullsec fix by compounding the already existing problems with sov gameplay. In the meantime I'll be getting filthy rich #jitafourtyfour

how little u know.