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What's up with the rigs market right now?

Author
Praxis Ginimic
Best Kept Frozen.
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#1 - 2013-10-16 15:46:11 UTC
So after just over a year of playing I have manufactured my first item since the tutorials. An ashimu, the bpc of which came to me as a spoil of war and gathered much dust in my hangar until I had melted down enough pew-pew loot to cover the min's cost. I was beaming about my new experience to a newb ally mate on comms when he told me how much isk he was making from rig production.

I looked into it and found that he clearly failed to calculate the value of his salvage at anything above zero, stating a cost of "about 500k per run"

After considering the actual market value on salvage as compared to the market values of pvp related rigs I am confused. There must be profit in the market or salvage wouldn't go for so much but I just can't see it. Perhaps because of my complete lack of production skills?

TL:DR What is a reasonable profit margin on t1 pvp related rigs? What is a reasonable entry barrier to the market in terms of skills? How long did it take you to recoup the cost of purchasing & researching your rig bpo's or do you even bother with that step?
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-10-16 17:51:43 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Perhaps because of my complete lack of production skills?

If you don't have PE V, that's your problem.
Termy Rockling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-10-16 20:03:03 UTC
Rigs pay out around 200k-2M isk/hour, pretty much same as any other profitable item in EVE.
Researched BPOs and ProdEff5.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#4 - 2013-10-16 22:26:49 UTC
Odyssey really shook up the rig market. There's a lot more tech 2 salvage now (from exploration) and so tech 2 rigs have crashed hard in value (although they are being used more as a result).

This has all sorts of effects on the t1 rig market too.

There's other effects from the capital rigs being introduced.



I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Praxis Ginimic
Best Kept Frozen.
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#5 - 2013-10-17 00:26:59 UTC
Termy Rockling wrote:
Rigs pay out around 200k-2M isk/hour, pretty much same as any other profitable item in EVE.
Researched BPOs and ProdEff5.


Isk per hour seems like a strange way to measure production. With proper skills what sort of profit do you make per line, or max run bpc, or per run... something that can be measured between players like comparing fits at all V's.

Not to be snarky...Smile
Raphael Celestine
Celestine Inc.
#6 - 2013-10-17 00:56:41 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Termy Rockling wrote:
Rigs pay out around 200k-2M isk/hour, pretty much same as any other profitable item in EVE.
Researched BPOs and ProdEff5.


Isk per hour seems like a strange way to measure production. With proper skills what sort of profit do you make per line, or max run bpc, or per run... something that can be measured between players like comparing fits at all V's.

Not to be snarky...Smile

Read 'isk/hour' as 'isk per production line per hour'.

It's the standard measuring stick for comparing production options.
Praxis Ginimic
Best Kept Frozen.
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#7 - 2013-10-17 01:52:50 UTC
Ah. That makes sense. Thank you for clearing that up for an indy noob.
Novia Ephrael
You'll Thank Me Later
#8 - 2013-10-17 03:22:14 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Perhaps because of my complete lack of production skills?

If you don't have PE V, that's your problem.


You need at least PE IV for making rigs, for medium and smaller, the 5th level often doesn't make a difference to the materials.

'tis a good tip for people that are looking for something to manufacture whilst training the week-long PE V.
Mistress Rose
Defensores Fidei
#9 - 2013-10-18 00:23:45 UTC
Pretty much what everyone above has said. The Tech II market especially has been hammered, and I don't think its a salvage supply issue. The supply really hasn't increased much, but the number of new entrants to T2 rig production has dramatically increased. Rather than discipline themselves with nice margins, they are playing the .01 ISK game into oblivion. Also, I think the big drop in blue salvage prices was really the result of dramatically less manipulation. Exploration sites really don't matter in blue salvage supply economics.

Now, reducing prices on some items has made them emminently viable for daily PvP usage, but this isn't nearly enough to recover the market.

The real profits tend to lie in the capital-sized market right now, but, building T2 capital rigs is a very expensive endeavor, and can result in large amounts of capital being tied up.

Its still decent on some individual items, but research and due diligence is now a must. There are still excellent T2 rig margin opportunities in the outlying hubs.

MR
Praxis Ginimic
Best Kept Frozen.
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#10 - 2013-10-18 03:14:59 UTC
Well that advice makes things pretty clear going forward. I can just save some training time by not making rigs at all and just selling salvage to those who do.

With the release of those deployable tractor structures I think I may take up ninja salvaging. Probe them down, scoop all the loot and drop a flight of salvage drones. Then if anyone gives me flack for it I can abandon the salvage drones and drop sentries.Pirate
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-10-18 05:25:15 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Well that advice makes things pretty clear going forward. I can just save some training time by not making rigs at all and just selling salvage to those who do.

With the release of those deployable tractor structures I think I may take up ninja salvaging. Probe them down, scoop all the loot and drop a flight of salvage drones. Then if anyone gives me flack for it I can abandon the salvage drones and drop sentries.Pirate


other then ccp said the tractor thingy wont work on wrecks you dont own....
Praxis Ginimic
Best Kept Frozen.
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#12 - 2013-10-18 07:22:38 UTC
Lady Naween wrote:
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Well that advice makes things pretty clear going forward. I can just save some training time by not making rigs at all and just selling salvage to those who do.

With the release of those deployable tractor structures I think I may take up ninja salvaging. Probe them down, scoop all the loot and drop a flight of salvage drones. Then if anyone gives me flack for it I can abandon the salvage drones and drop sentries.Pirate


other then ccp said the tractor thingy wont work on wrecks you dont own....


I know. I don't plan on dropping tractors, I plan on looting them and dropping salvage drones on the tight little pile of wrecks.
If, of course they're not password protected. Then I may just have to drop the sentries to blow it up and hope the loot drops.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#13 - 2013-10-18 11:09:12 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Lady Naween wrote:
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Well that advice makes things pretty clear going forward. I can just save some training time by not making rigs at all and just selling salvage to those who do.

With the release of those deployable tractor structures I think I may take up ninja salvaging. Probe them down, scoop all the loot and drop a flight of salvage drones. Then if anyone gives me flack for it I can abandon the salvage drones and drop sentries.Pirate


other then ccp said the tractor thingy wont work on wrecks you dont own....


I know. I don't plan on dropping tractors, I plan on looting them and dropping salvage drones on the tight little pile of wrecks.
If, of course they're not password protected. Then I may just have to drop the sentries to blow it up and hope the loot drops.


They're not Pirate
You'll just go suspect if you steal the loot (IIRC).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Nathan32Derby UK
Goodfellas Inc.
#14 - 2013-10-22 04:45:06 UTC
I manufacture rigs from my own bpo's ( that are slowly being researched), i look at where the rigs are not available, I load up my tanked bs and warp to gate all the way. There is good profit on them, but its not a 5 minute job. All I am doing really is turning in my own mission salvage, converting into a finished product and selling on at a premium. I do a week or 2's worth of missioning and salvaging, build what i can until i have 20,30,40,50 different rigs travel, slap them on the markets. I sell anywhere between 5 mill worth and 200 mill in any given day.
I use eve isk per hour to calculate production cost and adjust my price to reflect.
Before you ask, i won't say where I sell, what sells best or at what profit margain i work from.

It does mean though that you have to be prepared to sit back and wait ( often weeks ) for sales, but since I have plenty of other occupations to make isk in eve, I am always bringing in the isk. ( rig manufacture and buy low/ sell high ) is always gonna be a secondary occupation., its the same for most manufacturers.
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#15 - 2013-10-22 05:10:27 UTC
Sometimes I find a rig that is under production cost, buy the region of them, and then re-list them at 10 times the price, if I sell 1/10th then I have made my money back, the rest is gravvy :P
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
#16 - 2013-10-22 18:06:26 UTC
Production is only as good ot profitable as the salesman at the end of the day.

You can have PE0 and still turn a profit if you're selling whatever it is in some remote spot gouging people as much as you like.

In hubs or busier spots though yeah you need PE5 and rigs and T2 rigs fluctuate a lot with many people building rigs "because the salvage they get is free" - and hence selling built rigs even under the salvage sale value.

For all the clicking and spreadsheets involved there's easier ways to make isk in eve than production.