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[Rubicon] [Updated] Interdictor Rebalance

First post First post
Author
Pleniers
Appetite 4 Destruction
#261 - 2013-10-16 19:29:10 UTC
Can we not have the "slip guns" deal in the Eris please?
Patrice Macmahon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#262 - 2013-10-16 20:10:46 UTC
Is the warp disruption bubble mechanic also finally getting tweaked?


The reason I ask is that currently the bubble mechanic only affect a warp parabola (the final landing point) if the bubble was in place BEFORE the ship initiated warp.

With the changes to warp speed time, will the mechanic be adjusted so that a ship is stopped on a bubble if the bubble was placed before the ship enters grid.

This would allow a fast moving interdictor to warp past a ship, land on grid, and force their final landing destination. Currently if you have a ship following in warp, drop a bubble, the ship ignores your bubble because their landing zone was calculated before the bubble was put in place.

Any remarks on this game mechanic ccp?

 "Much of this is crystallised in our philosophy, or as others call it "the Intaki Faith". We simply call it Ida - the literal translation is "to consider", and is a good description of the Intaki." 

Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#263 - 2013-10-16 20:25:55 UTC
Patrice Macmahon wrote:
Is the warp disruption bubble mechanic also finally getting tweaked?


The reason I ask is that currently the bubble mechanic only affect a warp parabola (the final landing point) if the bubble was in place BEFORE the ship initiated warp.

With the changes to warp speed time, will the mechanic be adjusted so that a ship is stopped on a bubble if the bubble was placed before the ship enters grid.

This would allow a fast moving interdictor to warp past a ship, land on grid, and force their final landing destination. Currently if you have a ship following in warp, drop a bubble, the ship ignores your bubble because their landing zone was calculated before the bubble was put in place.

Any remarks on this game mechanic ccp?

This would be so damn amazing! Imageine a battleship warping off towards a planet far away. You follow it and drop a bubble before it lands and it's dragged into it. Holy batman, make this happen!

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

dethleffs
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#264 - 2013-10-16 20:37:06 UTC
Meh. Changes are bad, but some ideas in this thread are awesome. Make it so!

Also, the reason we fly 10mn dictors is because their sig is too big with mwd, Identify the real problem and fix that instead of bandaiding stuff please.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#265 - 2013-10-16 20:42:46 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Patrice Macmahon wrote:
Is the warp disruption bubble mechanic also finally getting tweaked?


The reason I ask is that currently the bubble mechanic only affect a warp parabola (the final landing point) if the bubble was in place BEFORE the ship initiated warp.

With the changes to warp speed time, will the mechanic be adjusted so that a ship is stopped on a bubble if the bubble was placed before the ship enters grid.

This would allow a fast moving interdictor to warp past a ship, land on grid, and force their final landing destination. Currently if you have a ship following in warp, drop a bubble, the ship ignores your bubble because their landing zone was calculated before the bubble was put in place.

Any remarks on this game mechanic ccp?


This would be so damn amazing! Imageine a battleship warping off towards a planet far away. You follow it and drop a bubble before it lands and it's dragged into it. Holy batman, make this happen!


so u dont just want to be able to warp off towards where a battleship warped off to with a pretty sizeable margin of error on land time, but you also want to be able to pre-emptively force his warp out location to within 2000m? in a ship that can land within 30km from tackle range and have the speed to close that distance before any kind of re-alignment?

dont make me laugh! uve already had your cake in the form of the accel buffs, and now eating the cake with the proposed (yet somewhat lacklustre) interdictor changes, do not make or support ridiculous, ill thought out proposals like this one.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#266 - 2013-10-16 21:14:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
so u dont just want to be able to warp off towards where a battleship warped off to with a pretty sizeable margin of error on land time, but you also want to be able to pre-emptively force his warp out location to within 2000m? in a ship that can land within 30km from tackle range and have the speed to close that distance before any kind of re-alignment?

dont make me laugh! uve already had your cake in the form of the accel buffs, and now eating the cake with the proposed (yet somewhat lacklustre) interdictor changes, do not make or support ridiculous, ill thought out proposals like this one.

Let's face it, if someone plays "it's too easy to avoid combat in EVE" card, not much you can argue with.
Joelleaveek
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#267 - 2013-10-16 21:18:27 UTC
I do not like the split weapons on the Eris.
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#268 - 2013-10-16 21:30:42 UTC
Harreeb Alls wrote:

A lot of people are complaining about split weapon systems, the new Scythe Fleet issue is proof it can work, and I can see why some people are confused about the ERIS being the ship that gets it, as Gallente is not traditionally the split weapons race. Maybe on top of the 5% explosion velocity, give it 5% cap use on hybrids as well. This way it will have the same amount of bonus's to hybrids as other dictors have to their primary weapon systems. I think a second low on the fly catcher is a good idea. Having to choose between the only dmg mod for missiles and a dcu is a bit silly, and painful. Yea, it's got 5 mids, but it is short a launcher. Having the slots for ballistic control + dcu seems fair.


The fleet scythe is proof that it can work when done right. The Eris with a 4/4 layout is a perfect example of how to do it wrong. Also.. cap bonus to hybrids? What? I don't even understand where this suggestion came from.
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
TomThe Smurf
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#269 - 2013-10-16 21:37:35 UTC
Tenaris Zeratul wrote:
New Eris is garbage. Please make it either missiles or turrets.


Oh noes there isnt a gall. ship that gets buffed to the point where its clearly the best.. FIX NOW.... gall has just about every other ship class in the bag, they dont need this one too.

Casoff the touchy feely alliance. Tranny pics all day from this white woman in a black mans  body

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#270 - 2013-10-16 22:11:15 UTC
TomThe Smurf wrote:
Tenaris Zeratul wrote:
New Eris is garbage. Please make it either missiles or turrets.


Oh noes there isnt a gall. ship that gets buffed to the point where its clearly the best.. FIX NOW.... gall has just about every other ship class in the bag, they dont need this one too.


Gallente masterrace.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#271 - 2013-10-16 23:32:31 UTC
The survivability of these ships is still in doubt on the battlefield - their sig radius is larger than a destroyer, with less hitpoints. Does this mean you *like* the fact they're rarely more than suicide bubble droppers? I've seen people rarely bother to fit weapons or other mods because they get smoked almost every single time they're on the field. They are a priority target, and not exactly cheap, so give them a greatly reduced signature radius or some increased resists (up to half tech 2) and also another 20% on the hitpoints.

Just because people fly sabres all the time doesn't mean that ship is perfect and should be the gold standard. Fix 'em properly.

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.

Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#272 - 2013-10-17 01:12:22 UTC
Much like every other Gallente pilot -

WTF is with your fascination with a mixed weapon system on the Eris? Haven't you heard enough complaints over the years about this crap design feature? Hasn't enough abuse been heaped, and rightfully so, upon this ill-thought-out concept?

Second thing, WTF is up with you making everything except the Sabre dependent upon missiles? Much like split weapon systems, haven't we tried this? Give Caldari missiles, it's their forte! Let Amarr fit lasers, and let Gallente fit a FULL RACK of hybrids!

If these things are supposed to be able to catch and kill Interceptors, you've given everyone except for the Sabre (as usual) an exceptionally LOUSY platform with which to attempt it.

A T2-fit Catalyst would be more likely to scare an Inty pilot, and, even at that, not much. MAKE THE OTHER THREE AS CAPABLE AS THE SABRE IN ACTUAL COMBAT, NOT ON PAPER!!!
Octoven
Stellar Production
#273 - 2013-10-17 01:39:01 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Why do all races have missile ships now?

I don't get it.. We don't see lasers or Ac's being flavour for other races :S


The primary reason for this is that missiles and guns are two completely different weapon systems...always have been the difference between heavy missiles and medium beams are night and day compared to beams and arties. This is mostly due to support skills. Missiles have a different set of support skills than lasers whereas lasers, projectiles, and even hybrids have similar support skills so there isnt as much cross training going from hybrids to lasers compared to going from for instance projectiles to missiles or the other way round. Allowing more ships to have missiles prevents guns from having a monopoly over ships. I rather like the new influx of missile boats.

Now onto the ship balances....all of them look great so far, I love how you have brought out the need for true maneuverability in them. HICs are a bit more rigid in terms of moving around so its nice to get some flexibility in terms of a more agile interdictor. Bang on job, Ive never bothered training into them because its not really worth it given the comparison to HICs so I skipped them just like T1 dessies. However, I do think I will train into one just to have a bit more fun at a cheaper rate :D
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#274 - 2013-10-17 01:45:32 UTC
Imigo Montoya wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 / 3.6(+0.132) / 1285000 / 6.41s(+0.23)


Amarr have their armour resists
Caldari have their shield resists
Gallente have their high DPS
Minmatar have their speed and agility

These are the things that help ships of each race stay alive, whether through tank, gank, or ability to hit and GTFO.

While the Sabre is still the fastest and has the best agility rating, its effective agility (as shown by align time, determined by agility and mass (as I understand it)) is now not only not the best, it's the worst of all the interdictors.

Sure, a sabre can fit nanos to improve agility, but so can all the others. The comparison needs to be made on the base stats and the improvements to the others have meant that the Sabre is relatively worse off now.

I think this might need another small balance pass.



That a million times. THere is NOTHIGN that justifies minamtar having the LEAST agile ship. NO it doe snto matter what any other dreams .. its WRONG.. all WRONG. If you think that is right you guys should NOT be balancing ships for this game!

PLease CCP, your game balance peopel shoudl be people that understand the CONCEPTS OF THE RACES, FLAVORS and ROLES.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

dexter xio
Dead Game.
#275 - 2013-10-17 10:39:42 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Patrice Macmahon wrote:
Is the warp disruption bubble mechanic also finally getting tweaked?


The reason I ask is that currently the bubble mechanic only affect a warp parabola (the final landing point) if the bubble was in place BEFORE the ship initiated warp.

With the changes to warp speed time, will the mechanic be adjusted so that a ship is stopped on a bubble if the bubble was placed before the ship enters grid.

This would allow a fast moving interdictor to warp past a ship, land on grid, and force their final landing destination. Currently if you have a ship following in warp, drop a bubble, the ship ignores your bubble because their landing zone was calculated before the bubble was put in place.

Any remarks on this game mechanic ccp?

This would be so damn amazing! Imageine a battleship warping off towards a planet far away. You follow it and drop a bubble before it lands and it's dragged into it. Holy batman, make this happen!


RIP every gang that engages a blob with 2-3 dics?

Dead Game.

Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#276 - 2013-10-17 11:20:18 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Nartel Vortok wrote:
Anna Djan wrote:
I was really looking forward to the changes from a non 0.0 dessy pilot.

Quite disappointed.

From the stats I can not see a reason why i'd pick these over standard dessies or AF's (non 0.0 perspective remember).


Why would you use a dictor out of nullsec? The entire point of it is to bubble, not to be some bad gimmick lowsec pvp ship.


Interdictors are actually some of the best ships to blitz the SoE epic arc. Due to their high warp speed making all the traveling faster (which is getting an overall buff) and their ability to mulch NPC frigates.

This is a very tiny niche role but it is a hi sec one.


Confirming that there are uses for dictors in high sec too. You just have to dig deep to find them. Here's one example: I used the Eris for the longest of time as a loot&salvage ship, fast, eight hi slots and all those low slots, yummy.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#277 - 2013-10-17 11:43:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Kagura Nikon wrote:
That a million times. THere is NOTHIGN that justifies minamtar having the LEAST agile ship. NO it doe snto matter what any other dreams .. its WRONG.. all WRONG. If you think that is right you guys should NOT be balancing ships for this game!

PLease CCP, your game balance peopel shoudl be people that understand the CONCEPTS OF THE RACES, FLAVORS and ROLES.

Just calm down, we all know how cases such as theese are handled. "We are happy with X, so we aren't touching it, instead we are taking Y, Z, and others to X's level. Therefore, this season X will become worthless s***. Because karma. Or something."
/bitter-vet-not-yet
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#278 - 2013-10-17 12:29:23 UTC
Galphii wrote:
The survivability of these ships is still in doubt on the battlefield - their sig radius is larger than a destroyer, with less hitpoints. Does this mean you *like* the fact they're rarely more than suicide bubble droppers? I've seen people rarely bother to fit weapons or other mods because they get smoked almost every single time they're on the field. They are a priority target, and not exactly cheap, so give them a greatly reduced signature radius or some increased resists (up to half tech 2) and also another 20% on the hitpoints.

Just because people fly sabres all the time doesn't mean that ship is perfect and should be the gold standard. Fix 'em properly.


yup, they are flown because a dictor is a necessity. everytime a pilot "surrenders" himself to dictor-duty he knows, when there is a fight, he goes back home in a pod.
Bezdar22
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#279 - 2013-10-17 12:53:52 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
FLYCATCHER

Caldari Destroyer Bonuses:
10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile kinetic damage per level (was 5%)
10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile Velocity per level

Interdictors Bonuses:
4% bonus to shield resistances
10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level
15% reduction in penalty to MWD sig radius

Role bonus:
Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 3L; 5 launchers ,1 turret
Fittings: 60(+4) PWG, 270(+5) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 900 / 700 / 750
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 650(+150) / 325s(-8.33) / 2(+0.5)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 / 3.4(+0.53) / 1350000(-222000) / 6.36s(+0.1)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 475 / 7
Sensor strength: 14(+2) Gravimetric
Signature radius: 60



i loke this idea
Randy Wray
Heinous Peinus
#280 - 2013-10-17 12:59:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Randy Wray
I'm going to suggest again the thing I suggested in the interceptor thread: Make interdictors immune to their own bubbles.

Light Interdictors are essentially the "trapper" kinda class in eve. A trapper shouldn't get caught in his own traps. To balance this they would gain agression from bubbling again. On top of the essential stat changes that have been discussed in this thread I also support the idea of new kinds of interdiction probes. Maybe one that only has a 5km radius but stays up for 5 minutes instead of just 1? Like an instant temporary drag bubble.

How would this change the game?
Skilled cloaky interdictor pilots would be able to team tag tackle capitals with low risk, is this OP? No, it's not OP for the same reason that plex doesn't make eve pay to win: it requires alot of skill and good execution, essentially bringing back specialized tackling. Dictors can get caught in each others bubbles and can be in great peril if they try to reenter grid which they have to do sooner or later.

In gang warfare interdictors could stay behind the gang, bubble a gate and warp trapping a hostile chaser without having to sacrifice himself, it's a specialized trapping ship after all.

You might argue that this will make fast align shield interdictors the standard leaving armor dictors behind, how would you counter that? By giving armor dictors good enough (sig)tanking potential to be used in small gang armor doctrines. The high resist profile on the heretic does help that, but I feel like they need a general signature reduction and/or some kind of MWD signature reduction bonus since noone would think of AB fitting a dictor even in an armor doctrine.

As a solo pvper I think a change like this would also make me alot more motivated to fly light interdictors.

Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

twitch.tv/randywray