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Renting: JUMP TO OUTPOST
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Sydian Rie
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#1 - 2013-10-15 20:02:03 UTC
Basic Idea:

Alliance 1 has sov in a system. Alliance 2 member wants to jump to said system without having someone to go and light a cyno. If said members corp has permission from Alliance 1 and pays a rental fee, said member can simply jump directly to the outpost in the system owned by Alliance 1. Only works for player owned outposts.

I BLINK therefore I am broke...
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#2 - 2013-10-15 20:10:53 UTC
Sydian Rie wrote:
Basic Idea:

Alliance 1 has sov in a system. Alliance 2 member wants to jump to said system without having someone to go and light a cyno. If said members corp has permission from Alliance 1 and pays a rental fee, said member can simply jump directly to the outpost in the system owned by Alliance 1. Only works for player owned outposts.

Why?

Specifically, why do we need this change? What is it that is so wrong with the status quo?

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Sydian Rie
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#3 - 2013-10-15 20:38:30 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Sydian Rie wrote:
Basic Idea:

Alliance 1 has sov in a system. Alliance 2 member wants to jump to said system without having someone to go and light a cyno. If said members corp has permission from Alliance 1 and pays a rental fee, said member can simply jump directly to the outpost in the system owned by Alliance 1. Only works for player owned outposts.

Why?

Specifically, why do we need this change? What is it that is so wrong with the status quo?


Easier logistics between systems that are not owned by your alliance. Also, with all the technology that "exists" in New Eden, the current format seems very low tech. Let's pretend simulated wormholes actually existed and you could create them to go somewhere. Now, explain to me why you would design a system allowing you to jump to a POS or another person but not to a much larger and more capable structure. Also, explain to me why, with all this technology you would not be allowed to jump to a system that your friends own, even if they were willing to give you permission?

I BLINK therefore I am broke...
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2013-10-15 20:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
OP: "Ah bloo bloo... I don't want to rely on others to move around what was designed as a corporate asset... and I don't want the risk of being caught when I jump 15km off a POS.... CCP, please allow us to instantly move our massive ships that can carry other ships to another system and immediately dock up!!!"


Not supported.

How did you Veterans start?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#5 - 2013-10-15 20:53:31 UTC
Sydian Rie wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Sydian Rie wrote:
Basic Idea:

Alliance 1 has sov in a system. Alliance 2 member wants to jump to said system without having someone to go and light a cyno. If said members corp has permission from Alliance 1 and pays a rental fee, said member can simply jump directly to the outpost in the system owned by Alliance 1. Only works for player owned outposts.

Why?

Specifically, why do we need this change? What is it that is so wrong with the status quo?


Easier logistics between systems that are not owned by your alliance. Also, with all the technology that "exists" in New Eden, the current format seems very low tech. Let's pretend simulated wormholes actually existed and you could create them to go somewhere. Now, explain to me why you would design a system allowing you to jump to a POS or another person but not to a much larger and more capable structure. Also, explain to me why, with all this technology you would not be allowed to jump to a system that your friends own, even if they were willing to give you permission?

Long story short, there are artificial blocks to convenience. These are to open opportunities for opposed game play.

Story line explanation: For every breakthrough, there is a countermeasure.
Each technological marvel has needs and requirements to perform a function. When you can cause a break in the events between effort and result, you can block the result.
Now, of course, the original group making the effort can try to compensate for, or prevent, the break. This results in whoever makes the better effort succeeding.

Automated cyno fields, such as the one you described, are potentially vulnerable to discreet jamming.
Even the tiniest deviation can shift the arrival point into nearby anchored structures.
This can result in a large vessel catastrophically merging with a solid object, resulting in the power cores of both becoming unstable and detonating.
Due to the close proximity to planetary bodies, as well as the inherent population of outposts, these automated cyno devices were banned as potential weapons of mass destruction.
The historical archives does not want to add more tragedies into the history of New Eden...

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Sydian Rie
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#6 - 2013-10-15 20:54:57 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
OP: "Ah bloo bloo... I don't want to rely on others to move around what was designed as a corporate asset... and I don't want the risk of being caught when I jump 15km off a POS.... CCP, please allow us to instantly move our massive ships that can carry other ships to another system and immediately dock up!!!"


Not supported.


Not sure if you are aware but you can already instantly jump to an outpost and instantly dock up. I'm proposing a more logical way of doing the same thing. Besides, when was the last time you expected someone to light a cyno on a camped outpost so you could pick up some stuff? Your point is far off the mark.

It's the same reason CCP changed the minimum warp-to distance to 0, because it makes absolutely NO sense to only be able to warp to 15km and not to 0.

I BLINK therefore I am broke...
Sydian Rie
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#7 - 2013-10-15 20:59:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Sydian Rie
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Sydian Rie wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Sydian Rie wrote:
Basic Idea:

Alliance 1 has sov in a system. Alliance 2 member wants to jump to said system without having someone to go and light a cyno. If said members corp has permission from Alliance 1 and pays a rental fee, said member can simply jump directly to the outpost in the system owned by Alliance 1. Only works for player owned outposts.

Why?

Specifically, why do we need this change? What is it that is so wrong with the status quo?


Easier logistics between systems that are not owned by your alliance. Also, with all the technology that "exists" in New Eden, the current format seems very low tech. Let's pretend simulated wormholes actually existed and you could create them to go somewhere. Now, explain to me why you would design a system allowing you to jump to a POS or another person but not to a much larger and more capable structure. Also, explain to me why, with all this technology you would not be allowed to jump to a system that your friends own, even if they were willing to give you permission?

Long story short, there are artificial blocks to convenience. These are to open opportunities for opposed game play.

Story line explanation: For every breakthrough, there is a countermeasure.
Each technological marvel has needs and requirements to perform a function. When you can cause a break in the events between effort and result, you can block the result.
Now, of course, the original group making the effort can try to compensate for, or prevent, the break. This results in whoever makes the better effort succeeding.

Automated cyno fields, such as the one you described, are potentially vulnerable to discreet jamming.
Even the tiniest deviation can shift the arrival point into nearby anchored structures.
This can result in a large vessel catastrophically merging with a solid object, resulting in the power cores of both becoming unstable and detonating.
Due to the close proximity to planetary bodies, as well as the inherent population of outposts, these automated cyno devices were banned as potential weapons of mass destruction.
The historical archives does not want to add more tragedies into the history of New Eden...


Awesome reference! However, what's to keep us from merging with the Cyno Gen Array or other POS structures close to it? If it's unsafe to jump to an outpost, it should be equally unsafe to jump to a POS, especially when you have large fleets using the same bridge simultaneously.

I BLINK therefore I am broke...
Raphael Celestine
Celestine Inc.
#8 - 2013-10-15 21:20:51 UTC
Sydian Rie wrote:
Awesome reference! However, what's to keep us from merging with the Cyno Gen Array or other POS structures close to it? If it's unsafe to jump to an outpost, it should be equally unsafe to jump to a POS, especially when you have large fleets using the same bridge simultaneously.

Because the non-ship-based cyno systems don't operate as effectively in the gravitational field from anything larger than a POS, or the extra force-field systems that make an outpost indestructable disrupt their power flow, or because setting one up within gestalt-range of an inverted-tachyon-matrix reverses the polarity of the boojum field and unleashes the jabberwock. Or something.

Like Nikk said, this is primarily a game-play question, not a story line question. Once you decide what gives the desired gameplay, you can hand-wave pretty much anything with a little thought. (See: Planck generators)
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#9 - 2013-10-15 21:24:46 UTC
Sydian Rie wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Sydian Rie wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Sydian Rie wrote:
Basic Idea:

Alliance 1 has sov in a system. Alliance 2 member wants to jump to said system without having someone to go and light a cyno. If said members corp has permission from Alliance 1 and pays a rental fee, said member can simply jump directly to the outpost in the system owned by Alliance 1. Only works for player owned outposts.

Why?

Specifically, why do we need this change? What is it that is so wrong with the status quo?


Easier logistics between systems that are not owned by your alliance. Also, with all the technology that "exists" in New Eden, the current format seems very low tech. Let's pretend simulated wormholes actually existed and you could create them to go somewhere. Now, explain to me why you would design a system allowing you to jump to a POS or another person but not to a much larger and more capable structure. Also, explain to me why, with all this technology you would not be allowed to jump to a system that your friends own, even if they were willing to give you permission?

Long story short, there are artificial blocks to convenience. These are to open opportunities for opposed game play.

Story line explanation: For every breakthrough, there is a countermeasure.
Each technological marvel has needs and requirements to perform a function. When you can cause a break in the events between effort and result, you can block the result.
Now, of course, the original group making the effort can try to compensate for, or prevent, the break. This results in whoever makes the better effort succeeding.

Automated cyno fields, such as the one you described, are potentially vulnerable to discreet jamming.
Even the tiniest deviation can shift the arrival point into nearby anchored structures.
This can result in a large vessel catastrophically merging with a solid object, resulting in the power cores of both becoming unstable and detonating.
Due to the close proximity to planetary bodies, as well as the inherent population of outposts, these automated cyno devices were banned as potential weapons of mass destruction.
The historical archives does not want to add more tragedies into the history of New Eden...


Awesome reference! However, what's to keep us from merging with the Cyno Gen Array or other POS structures close to it? If it's unsafe to jump to an outpost, it should be equally unsafe to jump to a POS, especially when you have large fleets using the same bridge simultaneously.

The civilian population of a POS is considered non existant or trivial, and the planetary proximity is less of a threat.

Uninhabited moons are hit by things all the time, what's one more ship?

Add to this, the control mechanism for the POS version tends to be more cost effective to attack directly. It is amazing how a spreadsheet can influence military decisions like that, but there it is.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2013-10-15 21:30:25 UTC
Sydian Rie wrote:
. Besides, when was the last time you expected someone to light a cyno on a camped outpost so you could pick up some stuff?



See, most people would just wait until the camp was gone before getting the cyno lit, since it's going to get killed before you jump in anyway.
Elindreal
Planetary Interactors
#11 - 2013-10-15 22:57:56 UTC
This is silly and ez mode. Automated jump to outpost is stupid.

If anything being able to use/rent access to out of alliance cyno gens would be nice. But nothing more
Clark Haley
Elf Corp
#12 - 2013-10-15 23:38:58 UTC
Sydian Rie wrote:
Basic Idea:

Alliance 1 has sov in a system. Alliance 2 member wants to jump to said system without having someone to go and light a cyno. If said members corp has permission from Alliance 1 and pays a rental fee, said member can simply jump directly to the outpost in the system owned by Alliance 1. Only works for player owned outposts.



What about a POS or outpost cyno tower. You are given access to it and can activate it within a range determined by a new skill, remote cyno operation.
Sydian Rie
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#13 - 2013-10-17 04:11:54 UTC
Elindreal wrote:
This is silly and ez mode. Automated jump to outpost is stupid.

If anything being able to use/rent access to out of alliance cyno gens would be nice. But nothing more


Even this would be better and make more sense then ONLY being able to use your own alliance JB network.

I BLINK therefore I am broke...