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Creatures that extract tears - An in-depth analysis

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#21 - 2013-10-13 14:09:10 UTC
So, if I also can don my internet psychological expert hat for a bit here...

Let me propose a counterpoint. What is wrong with the individuals who are unable to realize that something isn't "not funny" just because it happens to them? Are they narcissists? Were they pampered as children? Is their own skewed sense of self worth so wrapped up in their accomplishments in a videogame that they cannot accept aspects of the game that can cause them loss?

Are they unable to disassociate the game world with reality?

What do you think?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jim Era
#22 - 2013-10-13 14:18:04 UTC
Violence is never the answer. We should all be friends.

Wat™
Black Panpher
CastleKickers
Rote Kapelle
#23 - 2013-10-13 14:18:22 UTC
Maliandra wrote:
Convince yourself this is tears, I couldn't care less. I thoroughly enjoy pointing these sorts of things out to people. Big smile


Why would i need to convince myself this is tears when you are doing such a fabulous job of it yourself?
Lightspeed Champion
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-10-13 14:18:34 UTC
Maliandra wrote:
Are they damaged perhaps? Maybe they we're they abused, bullied and/or molested as children.

These two sentences are so unnecessary, and so offensive to victims of sexual-assault.

Send any badposting-hate-mail to Sol Kal'orr. I promise to read it when I resub.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#25 - 2013-10-13 14:28:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So, if I also can don my internet psychological expert hat for a bit here...

Let me propose a counterpoint. What is wrong with the individuals who are unable to realize that something isn't "not funny" just because it happens to them? Are they narcissists? Were they pampered as children? Is their own skewed sense of self worth so wrapped up in their accomplishments in a videogame that they cannot accept aspects of the game that can cause them loss?

Are they unable to disassociate the game world with reality?

What do you think?


Welp, when we used to do things like play "Clue", if some kid came over and kicked the board, ruining the game, we pretty much kicked their a** for it and socially castigated them as fools. Forever in school.

People are proud of what they accomplish and build, even if it exists in the world of the virtual.

Imagine if terrorists blew up Mount Rushmore tomorrow morning. Would the sculptor who designed and built it not have a right to be upset at it's destruction ? Or is there something wrong with him for having an emotional connection to a pile of carved rocks in Wyoming ?

Is my birthday greeting message for my grandmother less valid because it comes as a piece of virtual email than on an actual card ?

These lines you folks are attempting to draw are rapidly disappearing faster than you can draw them.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Lightspeed Champion
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-10-13 14:29:08 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Lightspeed Champion wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Without these mechanics and their possibilities, there would be no game here.

At all.

I find the people who were creating Sims and then doing twisted things like watching them literally starve to death to be much much more disturbing and creepy.

Institution Worthy Creepy.

I knew a women who only played The Sims to immolate them. One of the nicest people I've ever met. Let's stop applying RL morality to pixels.


And John Wayne Gacy was nice to children. Loved them all so much as far as anyone could tell.

That a 'nice' person on the exterior would even have thoughts of this kind of behavior indicates their true nature. Think of the Virtual as a litmus test. Your true nature can indeed be revealed.

That's why psychological tests exist and work.

For this to make any sense the person I mentioned would have had to think pixels can feel pain...

Pixels can't feel pain.

BTW, I once threw grenades into the 'wedding-scene-on-the-boat' in Fallout 3 just to see what happened. The pixels that represented children didn't become pixel corpses, so I shot them for a bit. It's almost like I knew they weren't real...

Send any badposting-hate-mail to Sol Kal'orr. I promise to read it when I resub.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-10-13 14:29:50 UTC
Maliandra wrote:
We've all been there before. Scouring local or the forums and we come across one of these tear extractors. If we're lucky it's not our tears they are extracting. And in those scenarios, we can judge what we see from a more objective perspective.. I know I have... and I always wonder: Why? Why are they extracting tears? It just seems so... sad and.... pathetic?

It makes you wonder: What happened to these guys? Here we have fully grown adults that spend their free time logged onto an internet spaceship video game, with main purpose being to frustrate people and enjoy laughing about it. Really consider that for a second, creatures... you are spending hours of your free time doing the same thing snotty brats do at the age of 14... and you are doing this as adults. I would be simply and utterly surprised if any of these tear extractors have actual proper social skills in real life, and I reckon most are very doleful, shy and easy to pushover in the real world.

When I see a "tear extractor" my first assumption is that he must be a colossal moron, as anyone with the slightest semblance of intelligence would recognize just how shameful and embarrassing it is to do such things as an adult. However what we find is that this does not apply to many of these creatures; many are capable of displaying strong intellect when needed.

Are they damaged perhaps? Maybe they we're they abused, bullied and/or molested as children. Modern day psychology tells us such traumatic experiences in childhood could create such an effect; it creates murderers and rapists so why not these creatures?

How about one's upbringing. Most of us learned how to act from our parents... without that, maybe we'd end up just like them. Or maybe there parents simply have the same kind of deplorable personality that they have. We call that a "vicious cycle".

Listen creatures, I have a big ol' grin right now as I post this. Convince yourself this is tears, I couldn't care less. I thoroughly enjoy pointing these sorts of things out to people. Big smile

What are your guys opinions on it? What is it that makes these creatures tick?

Cheers and discuss!


This has been discussed many times.
it boils down to this.
1. subject 1 enjoys all aspects of pvp in a pvp computer game.
2. subject 2 has a tantrum and bursts into tears when blown up / conned in a game designed around these activities.

one, both or neither of these groups might have irl social /mental problems but most of us assume that it is unlikely to be the first group that is having problems.

Also i am with the people who find the dehumanising language used in your OP to be very disturbing.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#28 - 2013-10-13 14:39:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
There is something sad about players that take a game so seriously they cry, rage, and hate--for real--over actions that take place over the normal course of game play.

Tear extractors aren't the sad ones. They are the ones that remind everyone we are playing a game. That when we die, it is not real. When we lose money, we aren't losing real money. They are just the ones laughing when another player makes a bad play.

It was a tear extractor that taught me to truly enjoy eve. When my ship was turned to dust around me and I got a free trip back to station. I was going to tell this guy EXACTLY how I felt. I was so mad. So I opened up his profile and found.....

A form letter!

A form letter? Did this guy get so much hate that he had a form letter in his profile? I reassessed my whole attitude. And I did send him a message. But instead of raging like he expected, I talked to him normally asking what I did wrong and how I could improve my game.

He was totally helpful and not a jerk at all. That was back in revelations, so long ago that I don't have a killmail for it, but I wish I did, so I could give that guy the credit he deserves.

So no, I don't think tear extractors are sad at all. They are polite and fun people, you just have to treat them right. Although, they will still kill you if you give them half a chance.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#29 - 2013-10-13 14:41:50 UTC
Lightspeed Champion wrote:

For this to make any sense the person I mentioned would have had to think pixels can feel pain...

Pixels can't feel pain.

BTW, I once threw grenades into the 'wedding-scene-on-the-boat' in Fallout 3 just to see what happened. The pixels that represented children didn't become pixel corpses, so I shot them for a bit. It's almost like I knew they weren't real...



When "Guernica" was defaced by vandals initially, I'm sure Picasso didn't actually feel any real 'pain' from it as nerve endings don't connect an artist to their work (Annie Sprinkle excepted).

But does that make it OK to do ? Does it really matter ? I mean, "Guernica" is essentially just a buncha paint on a fabric base not scientifically distinguishable from a blank painted bedroom wall.

Your arguments are basically saying these bad behaviors are justified as there is no 'real' body connection to any of it.

That's a very dangerous way to think ultimately.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Lightspeed Champion
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-10-13 14:49:21 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Lightspeed Champion wrote:

For this to make any sense the person I mentioned would have had to think pixels can feel pain...

Pixels can't feel pain.

BTW, I once threw grenades into the 'wedding-scene-on-the-boat' in Fallout 3 just to see what happened. The pixels that represented children didn't become pixel corpses, so I shot them for a bit. It's almost like I knew they weren't real...



When "Guernica" was defaced by vandals initially, I'm sure Picasso didn't actually feel any real 'pain' from it as nerve endings don't connect an artist to their work (Annie Sprinkle excepted).

But does that make it OK to do ? Does it really matter ? I mean, "Guernica" is essentially just a buncha paint on a fabric base not scientifically distinguishable from a blank painted bedroom wall.

Your arguments are basically saying these bad behaviors are justified as there is no 'real' body connection to any of it.

That's a very dangerous way to think ultimately.


You just compared one of the most powerful anti-war paintings of the last one hundred years to a ship in EVE-Online...

Get some perspective m8

Send any badposting-hate-mail to Sol Kal'orr. I promise to read it when I resub.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#31 - 2013-10-13 14:53:10 UTC
Quote:
Welp, when we used to do things like play "Clue", if some kid came over and kicked the board, ruining the game, we pretty much kicked their a** for it and socially castigated them as fools. Forever in school.


Do that in EVE then, hmm? Also, your analogy is a tad... overblown. It's not one kid kicks down the board, it's one kid blocks another kid's movement on the board. They aren't hacking you, stopping you from playing the game completely, they are setting you back. A better analogy would be playing the game "Sorry".

Also, by most metrics I have been accused of, you and your friends are bullies. :P

Quote:
People are proud of what they accomplish and build, even if it exists in the world of the virtual.

Imagine if terrorists blew up Mount Rushmore tomorrow morning. Would the sculptor who designed and built it not have a right to be upset at it's destruction ? Or is there something wrong with him for having an emotional connection to a pile of carved rocks in Wyoming ?


Now, that is really getting overblown. First of all, Gutzon Borglum is long dead. Secondly, you even started by saying virtual, then you describe something that is not only a decade + long endeavor, but also a national monument. Your cute little untanked mining barges are neither, and I am pretty sure the guy who drew them doesn't get sad when one dies.

(Oh, and Mt. Rushmore is breaking, slowly. Erosion and all that)

Quote:

Is my birthday greeting message for my grandmother less valid because it comes as a piece of virtual email than on an actual card ?


Yes. I'm 27 years old, and I still send my grandmother a handwritten card. It shows, even if only a little bit, more effort than taking 16 seconds to Google something with cats on it.

Quote:
These lines you folks are attempting to draw are rapidly disappearing faster than you can draw them.


Gotta say, it's going to take you a while to erase the line between "National Monument" (or, as some joker mentioned, Guernica, one of the true masterpieces of our time), and "art assets that were produced by someone who is not you". Typical carebear hubris, if you ask me. You are not important enough to anyone to compare yourself and your possessions in a videogame to the great wonders of the world, or the works of master artists.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-10-13 14:54:23 UTC
I find some losses do feel quite 'real' and frankly getting ganked is embarrassing.

on the other hand tearing an exhumer apart with torps is extremely gratifying.

forums.  serious business.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#33 - 2013-10-13 14:56:30 UTC
"When the Muslims burned the Great Library of Alexandria to the ground, someone somewhere felt sad, so it's ok for me to feel sad about art assets that are not legally owned by me, nor drawn by me."

You don't see the category error there?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Lightspeed Champion
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2013-10-13 15:03:49 UTC
Were these forums always this bad?

Send any badposting-hate-mail to Sol Kal'orr. I promise to read it when I resub.
Jim Era
#35 - 2013-10-13 15:10:46 UTC
Lightspeed Champion wrote:
Were these forums always this bad?


Learn to take advantage of it

Wat™
Scarlett Wesson
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-10-13 15:15:48 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
When we lose money, we aren't losing real money.


Yeah, right. We can't possibly get IG money by paying RL cash. And we can't lose the time invested in creating something in the game either.

The fact that it happens in a video game doesn't excuse being happy when other people feel miserable. This is not the character that is miserable, but the player, a humain being, just like you and me. Being an ass can't be justified, no matter the circumstances.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#37 - 2013-10-13 15:24:32 UTC
Scarlett Wesson wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
When we lose money, we aren't losing real money.


Yeah, right. We can't possibly get IG money by paying RL cash. And we can't lose the time invested in creating something in the game either.

The fact that it happens in a video game doesn't excuse being happy when other people feel miserable. This is not the character that is miserable, but the player, a humain being, just like you and me. Being an ass can't be justified, no matter the circumstances.


No, but it does completely excuse being happy because you win at a videogame. I win, you lose. Apparently that is supremely upsetting to the entitlement generation.

And being an ass is entirely justified given some of the things I have seen people say to gankers. Ever hear of the "highsec miner grab bag"? It's the New Order's weekly collection of death threats, terms-of-service-breaking insults, and vile language used against them by the various miner populations. There is some stuff in there that justifies anything they do (in game, of course) to someone who says them.

I'll go ahead and tell you this. It is 100% ok to take a jab at someone who flips out about losing a ship. Because it borders on absurdity to be that upset at losing a ship in a video game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#38 - 2013-10-13 16:18:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Maliandra wrote:
We've all been there before. Scouring local or the forums and we come across one of these tear extractors. If we're lucky it's not our tears they are extracting. And in those scenarios, we can judge what we see from a more objective perspective.. I know I have... and I always wonder: Why? Why are they extracting tears? It just seems so... sad and.... pathetic?

It makes you wonder: What happened to these guys? Here we have fully grown adults that spend their free time logged onto an internet spaceship video game, with main purpose being to frustrate people and enjoy laughing about it. Really consider that for a second, creatures... you are spending hours of your free time doing the same thing snotty brats do at the age of 14... and you are doing this as adults. I would be simply and utterly surprised if any of these tear extractors have actual proper social skills in real life, and I reckon most are very doleful, shy and easy to pushover in the real world.

When I see a "tear extractor" my first assumption is that he must be a colossal moron, as anyone with the slightest semblance of intelligence would recognize just how shameful and embarrassing it is to do such things as an adult. However what we find is that this does not apply to many of these creatures; many are capable of displaying strong intellect when needed.

Are they damaged perhaps? Maybe they we're they abused, bullied and/or molested as children. Modern day psychology tells us such traumatic experiences in childhood could create such an effect; it creates murderers and rapists so why not these creatures?

How about one's upbringing. Most of us learned how to act from our parents... without that, maybe we'd end up just like them. Or maybe there parents simply have the same kind of deplorable personality that they have. We call that a "vicious cycle".

Listen creatures, I have a big ol' grin right now as I post this. Convince yourself this is tears, I couldn't care less. I thoroughly enjoy pointing these sorts of things out to people. Big smile

What are your guys opinions on it? What is it that makes these creatures tick?

Cheers and discuss!

The direct, and just as relevant counterpoint, would be to ask why the tears are produced in the first place. Money is not lost to ganking, that belongs to CCP for providing a service and selling GTCs; time and effort are what are truly lost.

Eve is a competitive game, one with very few rules, I've heard it described as a contact sport for the brain. Accept it for what it is, don't whine about being killed in a game where knocking off others is a legitimate business practice and sport; or move on because I don't see the overall dynamic changing anytime soon. CCP are rightly proud of their sandbox, and pretty much everything we do with it, up to and including robbing people blind and littering the spaceways with corpsicles.

TL;DR if people didn't cry about their losses, there would be no tears to collect.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-10-13 16:37:17 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Welp, when we used to do things like play "Clue", if some kid came over and kicked the board, ruining the game, we pretty much kicked their a** for it and socially castigated them as fools. Forever in school.


Argument is invalid. Kicking the board game isn't a legal move in the game of Clue.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#40 - 2013-10-13 16:53:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhivre
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


When "Guernica" was defaced by vandals initially, I'm sure Picasso didn't actually feel any real 'pain' from it as nerve endings don't connect an artist to their work (Annie Sprinkle excepted).

But does that make it OK to do ? Does it really matter ? I mean, "Guernica" is essentially just a buncha paint on a fabric base not scientifically distinguishable from a blank painted bedroom wall.

Your arguments are basically saying these bad behaviors are justified as there is no 'real' body connection to any of it.

That's a very dangerous way to think ultimately.




Did you just compare an irreplaceable object with an object that is unlimited?

So, you lose your internet spaceship....guess what, the market is full of identical hulls which are indistinguishable from the one you owned. It is also full of identical guns.


Sure, we all avoid doing bad things in games, we never shoot rats, we never kill 100 boars, or 100 [insert bad guy race here], we never shoot anyone in PvP, because, you know, it is exactly the same as doing it in real life.

The questions which need to be asked are, why is it the people who get ripped off (usually because they think they are ripping the other guy off.. "LOL, that idiot has a plex up for 6m isk..idiot!"), are the ones who feel the need to explode, often spilling over to RL threats....now, if, according to some, we are meant to take ingame actions as a character reference, then damn, I would avoid those guys like crazy.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!