Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Personally, I think giving freighters fitting options is alright.

Things that should be avoided:

No Highslots. Honestly, I could care less if it has a smartbomb or whatever, but a cloaking freighter should never, ever, ever be a reality!

No MWD-to-warp tricks. If you fit a 100mn MWD, pulse it for one cycle, you suddenly have freighters that enter warp in 10 seconds. Hell no!

Really, no one cares that much about how much stuff you can put in a freighter. The 1m m3 limit is called for only because we don't want carriers and dreads proliferating into highsec. As long as this proliferation is inhibited, I care less about the max capacity of a freighter.

Make an actual trade offs. The most coveted features of a freighter are:
Tank vs
Cargo.
Agility
Warp Speed
Sub-warp Speed.

The truth is, most people point to tank vs cargo size as the "trade off", but incorrectly so, as it is cargo value that matters. The biggest danger to a freighter is suicide ganking, and tank is the primary factor in this. Higher tank means more ships required to gank it which means it can safely carry more value before becoming a target.

IMO, a tanky freighter should have significantly more EHP than a JF, but perhaps can only carry 150k m3 or less and be the slowest in all the other categories. From there, people can sacrifice tank to improve any of the other 4 traits. An untanked freighter should have half the EHP it currently does.

freighter rigs sounds like a cool idea. Another idea would be to make a capital damage control and nerf the effect of subcap damage controls on capital ships to just 50% of their bonuses, and only let freighters use the subcap version.

I think a lot of modules should have reduced effects on capitals, such as hardeners/resist amps/membranes, capacitor modules, weapon upgrades, and electronics boosting modules. They should have capital versions that have a more significant production and fitting cost on capital ships, while still allowing them to fit subcap mods with reduced bonuses.

YES i agree ... they dont look freighty .... so small

they should be half the size of stations ...

and if mods are applicable, they should only be capital class rigs. and capital class rigs should carry capital class nerfs.
the only slot mods it should be able to have are 1 mid and 1 low slot. and thats it.

ie :
add 10% cargo rigged = reduction in total-ehp AND speed by 25%
add 10% speed rig = reduction in cargo AND ehp by 40%

and you can only add 2 rigs max

I still haven't seen any response to what I proposed...

Reduce the cargo capacity of all freighters to the point where they need a T2 cargo expander to achieve their current cargo capacity.

Give them one low slot. Give them 35 CPU, and 2 Powergrid.

This would maintain the 'no capitals in hisec' (although, to be honest, since they would only be able to be carried repackaged, the killmaills would have gankers everywhere drooling). It would provide the freighter pilot with the ability to fit according to their need/schedule:

1. DC II - tank. No speed or agility bonus. Must be activated after every gate jump.
2. I-stab - greater agility, even smaller cargo bay. No EHP bonus. Faster aligning. Useless for autopiloting.
3. Nano - greater agility, greater speed, less EHP, no cargo penalty - good for autopiloting (but you'd better be empty).
4. Cargohold Expander II - speed penalty, longer alignment time, larger cargo bay. You'd better only be carrying extremely cheap stuff, or you're just painting a target on your hull.

The ganker then gets to decide if he can put together the team needed to gank these four options, based upon the ship and cargo scanners all of you use. Don't bother complaining. Man up. Use the tools provided to you in-game. Do what you 'elite PVP'rs' always tell carebears to to - get help, use alts, choose your time/location properly - you know, WORK FOR IT, YOU WHINEY, LAZY, CRYBABIES!

All I ever see on the forums, anytime someone proposes something like this, is a bunch of gankers (yes, we can check the killboards, too) complaining about 'How dare you make MY fun more difficult?' 'You shouldn't make freighters harder to kill!'

HTFU. Not ONE of you has provided a solid, rational reason as to why a freighter/jump frieghter pilot has zero choice in how tough their ship is to kill, how long it takes to get from one place to another, or how easy they are to catch on a gate, unlike every other hull in the game.

Besides, every one of you know, with absolute certainty, that a tougher freighter will be carrying more valuable cargo - you just have to be willing to throw down the increased firepower it's going to take to earn the kill.

Like I said - be willing to EARN it. I had to be willing to work to gather up my cargo - you should have to work just as hard to steal it from me. Not simply multi-box 10 Catalysts. Not hide in a noob corp, so your cowardly a** can't be war dec'd, you should have to be willing to risk at least some sizeable fraction of what I am in order to steal it. I'm putting a billion worth of cargo, or more, plus nearly a billion worth of ship, on the line, every time I undock. You should have to work to kill/steal it, and shouldn't be immune to me hiring mercs to camp you into a station in retaliation.

Risk/reward. Action/reaction.

You want to gank me, fair play. But the decision of how easy I am to kill shouldn't be limited to the base stats of a ship, you shouldn't log in knowing exactly how many ships you're going to need to kill me, before I even show up.

i had. and a reduction in HP to compensate would in effect be a nerf. because if u fit for full capacity, u'd have gimped HP's. or if u fit for a little tank u cannot get the same capacity as now. or u can keep the freighter as it is and have ungimped health and full capacity...



yes. yes we have. and check my killbarods. everyone is telling me that im a ganker because of what side of the arguement i'm on lol. but i am infact a freighter pilot who thinks the freighter is fine as is, and it should not be nerfed.

Freighters are designed around capacity they are a big ******* truck to haul stuff that's it, they don't need defense or any mods fitted, there are other ships to use deep space, blockade runner for that purpose, freighters only defense is people guarding it or not hauling your stuff stupidly, you want the largest capacity AND defense? the only satisfying result in adding mods is that freighters will be the same as now except they would require mods for it.

Arguing that 100m fit catalysts 10 ships > freighter are not supposed to kill it really? it's not a ******* titan.

Just leave freighters as they are and if needed make a new ship that has mods and can be customized with its mods for the purpose you want (speed vs capacity vs tank etc.) Freighters will still be the supreme king of m3 capacity and the other ships will have different purposes for what you want.

This would be good to introduce a t3 kind of freighters where it's subsystems will adjust depending what you fit it with.

There's no reason to worry about freighters carrying cap ships now days. CCP can easily add a boolean value "iscapship" to caps and prevent freighters from carrying ships when that value is set. IIRC, they added this to caps already.

Why not simply give freighters a special bonus to cargo expanders so they get more cargo space per expander than normal? Then set them up so they have approximately the same cargo space when they have expander 2's as they have now. All other stats can be left the same or tweaked as CCP wishes. If you choose to fit a DCU (or other module), you will then be sacrificing a much greater amount of cargo capacity and CCP can very easily adjust just how much cargo capacity would be sacrificed per expander.

freighter cargo = 0
fleet hangar = current cargo bay
apply all cargo bonuses to fleet hangar.

problem solved.

you can put assembled ships in a fleet hangar, and it retains it's ability to carry regular cargo.

(if you fit 2 probes for max cargo and put 2 large containers in each you can carry up to 3120m3 of unscannable cargo in an orca.)

"Disingenuous" is a big word, well done you. I believe that the argument that this change would amount to a "nerf" is being presented, not for your benefit, but to mask the fact that your idea would lead to freighters having the ability to double their effective hitpoints. For a loss of 1/4 of the cargo, this would be neither balanced nor fair. It requires teamwork, coordination and resources to bring down freighters in highsec at the moment, and all it requires from freighter pilots to avoid being ganked is a bit of intelligence when filling your freighter. Don't ask for easymode just 'cause you want to haul faction battleships or blueprints everywhere.

can u put an assembled ship in a fleet hangar? other than with using courier contracts of course