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I was just wondering
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oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-10-11 11:15:52 UTC
How does someone even play in a battle with 4000 people involved...

In EQ the 300 man raids I had to look directly at the wall or I couldnt heal lol... I can only imagine ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSDNPFCPfY
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#2 - 2013-10-11 11:18:03 UTC
its called Time Dilation (i think)

they slow time down so everyone plays at a slow speed.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#3 - 2013-10-11 11:19:10 UTC
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
How does someone even play in a battle with 4000 people involved...

In EQ the 300 man raids I had to look directly at the wall or I couldnt heal lol... I can only imagine ...



There are some rather entertaining videos of it.



Time Dilation is a fascinating invention.



Have you ever read Halo Jones?



Its just like when she goes to Moab during the Tarantula Wars

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#4 - 2013-10-11 11:21:30 UTC
+1 Internet spaceship forum 'like' for Halo Jones reference.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#5 - 2013-10-11 11:36:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Yup, pretty much TiDi is what keeps it going without "blackscreening" (or other bad lag-induced things). However, prior to TiDi, there were still fights up to around 1500/2000 IIRC, but they were "pre-planned" -- you had to send a petition to CCP to the effect of "our 600 man fleet is heading into 1DH on Saturday the 12th" and so CCP would put 1DH on one of the supernodes during the Saturday DT (might've been through the website though, can't remember).

TiDi is "server enforced lag" if you will. When the server gets to a point where it can't keep up with the stack (e.g. taking 4 seconds to do what should only take 1), it starts running in "TiDi" mode and slowing down player actions by whatever factor is needed to keep on top of things. So if you're at 50% TiDi, that POS you'd normally take 40 minutes to RF will take 80 (in realtime) ... but in "Game Time" only 40 minutes have passed (at least for the affected system(s)).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#6 - 2013-10-11 11:59:33 UTC
Note that TiDi is mainly for saving the server from falling over (and desyncing the clients).

People taking part might still have to zoom out, disable brackets or otherwise tweak their graphics (or move the camera away from the action and 'stare at a wall') to keep their client own computers from grinding to a halt, or catching fire.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-10-11 12:04:00 UTC
It must be weird for all those twitch players to play in TiDi...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSDNPFCPfY
Julien Brellier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-10-11 12:26:26 UTC
Really large battles in EVE consist of lots of tiny coloured squares moving jerkily in super slow motion.

spectator sports it is not! Roll
Prince Kobol
#9 - 2013-10-11 12:28:44 UTC
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
How does someone even play in a battle with 4000 people involved...

In EQ the 300 man raids I had to look directly at the wall or I couldnt heal lol... I can only imagine ...


Pretty easy, Tidi hits 10%, you wonder off to make a brew maybe smoke a ciggy, perhaps even make a sandwaich and then upon your return you will either be dead or alive :)
Velicitia
XS Tech
#10 - 2013-10-11 12:42:09 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Note that TiDi is mainly for saving the server from falling over (and desyncing the clients).

People taking part might still have to zoom out, disable brackets or otherwise tweak their graphics (or move the camera away from the action and 'stare at a wall') to keep their client own computers from grinding to a halt, or catching fire.



this too ...


or you just get a titan and don't worry about it ...although CCP and computers aren't exactly friends...

proof:

  • boot.ini (and their solution)
  • Original WiS implementation

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-10-11 12:58:38 UTC
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
How does someone even play in a battle with 4000 people involved...

In EQ the 300 man raids I had to look directly at the wall or I couldnt heal lol... I can only imagine ...

You talk about a client side issue and people come up with TiDi...
Hra Neuvosto
Party Cat Enterprises
#12 - 2013-10-11 13:04:56 UTC
i just turn off drone models and missile-/gun effects in larger fights.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-10-11 13:45:13 UTC
And even in max TiDi my computer tends to disconnect about every 20-30 minutes.
While 20-30 minutes sound like ample time to blow up spaceships, please note that under these circumstances relogging takes about 10-20 minutes, so I only have about 5 minutes slow-mo battle before the next disconnect.
It gets worse when even mumble fails after reconnecting and you can't hear your FC anymore.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-10-11 13:47:16 UTC
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
It must be weird for all those twitch players to play in TiDi...

It's actually pretty cool. With time slowed down you get more time to respond. Logistics are arguably more effective in heavy TiDi because of this.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#15 - 2013-10-13 08:00:51 UTC

Came expecting a thread about "where do babies come from," "why is my body changing," or some other clearly trolling post.

Read a legitimate question from OP.

Left wondering why his title wasn't more specific.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Lightspeed Champion
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-10-13 13:41:18 UTC
I wish I could do big fights.

I play EVE on a Potato that lags out when I chase thirty Unistas.

RvB Ganked gives me 0.5 FPS.

Send any badposting-hate-mail to Sol Kal'orr. I promise to read it when I resub.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-10-13 16:02:55 UTC
Lightspeed Champion wrote:
I wish I could do big fights.

I play EVE on a Potato that lags out when I chase thirty Unistas.

RvB Ganked gives me 0.5 FPS.

Pacman grafix too stronk

Dodixie > Hek
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#18 - 2013-10-13 17:19:53 UTC
Tidi is terrible, but there will always be some guys who say "It was worse before Tidi" which helps maintain the status quo that Tidi is a solution rather than a bandaid.

Tidi is terrible to play in, and that fight in 6VDT that got Eve so much press was one of the lousiest times I have had in a large fleet battle scenario in this game.

While CCP was promoting the game with that event, the truth is, most of the players were hating every dilated second of it.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Wrecked Angle
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-10-13 17:44:47 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Tidi is terrible, but there will always be some guys who say "It was worse before Tidi" which helps maintain the status quo that Tidi is a solution rather than a bandaid.

Tidi is terrible to play in, and that fight in 6VDT that got Eve so much press was one of the lousiest times I have had in a large fleet battle scenario in this game.

While CCP was promoting the game with that event, the truth is, most of the players were hating every dilated second of it.

There's a lot of truth in this post. 6VDT was pretty terrible to actually try to play in but as a one off was cool to be part of.

It's pretty difficult to know what CCP can do to improve things though. There's possibly optimization that could be done to the code if it were seriously overhauled but coordinating and sequencing the actions of 4000 connections is probably not going to be done in real-time anytime soon.

While it's true that TiDi is a bandaid rather than a solution the only alternative I can think of is to limit the number of involved pilots somehow and that would be a massive compromise. 4000 really strained the TiDi system too, fights with ~2000 pilots are still reasonably playable.
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#20 - 2013-10-13 18:08:51 UTC
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
How does someone even play in a battle with 4000 people involved...

In EQ the 300 man raids I had to look directly at the wall or I couldnt heal lol... I can only imagine ...


Time dilation + liquid-cooled gaming tower + Googlefiber + situational awareness = getting on 2000 killmails in one day.

I do not have the kind of money to spend on a rig that would keep up with the hardware demands.
Besides... running with Atlas, back in my null days, kinda got me burnt out on "blobwarfare" real fast. If I *never* see another titan, again, it'll still be too soon.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
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