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BRING BACK DRONE ALLOYS!!!
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Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-10-10 22:59:47 UTC
Khan Farshatok wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
In other news.. why not just add rouge drone Faction/Deadspace loot and drops.. surely that will add some unique flavor and benifits..


I love it! I've always thought my cheeks needed a little more color.



[srsbsnspost]
Drone space isn't in great shape right now. But at least it's no longer murdering the rest of the economy, so that's still a positive step. A carrier + Noctis being able to mine more m3 of minerals per hour than a pair of Hulks could was ludicrous.


a carrier and a noctis in null sec is way higher risk than two hulks in high sec.



that depends on location and time. I could rat in some parts of 0.0 and not see a neut for hours on end. Asia/oceanic can be a dead time which is what I am on.


Or if I got intel of them 5 systems out it was wrap it up, safe pos it and smoke em if you got em time. empire side you get lots of neuts and you don't know their intentions until they get froggy and leap.


Also lets be honest...you are talking about drone space. Not a popular roam spot. Its a bit off the usual roam routes. And a region well known for botters. PIta to get there and when you do go there you know the gtfo part of the scripts being used work pretty damn good. Not saying all droners bot....but you were not shocked to find them there.
Aranel Zirachii
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#22 - 2013-10-10 23:21:09 UTC
One would think that if one did not know why they were removed one would research this before one makes a thread :)
Khan Farshatok
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#23 - 2013-10-10 23:23:54 UTC
i infact know exactly why they were removed. i lived in drone space during this time and well before then.
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#24 - 2013-10-11 00:36:05 UTC
Khan Farshatok wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
In other news.. why not just add rouge drone Faction/Deadspace loot and drops.. surely that will add some unique flavor and benifits..


I love it! I've always thought my cheeks needed a little more color.



[srsbsnspost]
Drone space isn't in great shape right now. But at least it's no longer murdering the rest of the economy, so that's still a positive step. A carrier + Noctis being able to mine more m3 of minerals per hour than a pair of Hulks could was ludicrous.


a carrier and a noctis in null sec is way higher risk than two hulks in high sec.


While I understand your point of view with the risk vs. reward thing, I think it is wrong to have a ship not specialized in harvesting minerals (in this case a carrier) to 'outmine' a ship specialized for the job (aka Hulk).
Khan Farshatok
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#25 - 2013-10-11 00:54:55 UTC
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Khan Farshatok wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
In other news.. why not just add rouge drone Faction/Deadspace loot and drops.. surely that will add some unique flavor and benifits..


I love it! I've always thought my cheeks needed a little more color.



[srsbsnspost]
Drone space isn't in great shape right now. But at least it's no longer murdering the rest of the economy, so that's still a positive step. A carrier + Noctis being able to mine more m3 of minerals per hour than a pair of Hulks could was ludicrous.


a carrier and a noctis in null sec is way higher risk than two hulks in high sec.


While I understand your point of view with the risk vs. reward thing, I think it is wrong to have a ship not specialized in harvesting minerals (in this case a carrier) to 'outmine' a ship specialized for the job (aka Hulk).


i could see that point of view if mineral prices weren't so completely out of hand. the drone alloys them selves balanced it out. by increasing prices on minerals all you are doing is increasing the prices on ships which then reduces the amount of fights that happen.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#26 - 2013-10-11 03:24:22 UTC
Khan Farshatok wrote:
a carrier and a noctis in null sec is way higher risk than two hulks in high sec.


So? 2 Hulks in Nullsec is way higher risk than 2 Hulks in High Sec, but when Drone Poop was still around they weren't paid any better than the ones in HS, because the Carrier+Noctis was mining a greater volume of minerals than they were (also like 3 or 4 times the value of minerals, but that's beside the point).

CCP has explicitly stated that the Hulk is meant to be the king of mining yields. Why would they let an Archon and a Noctis continue to outstrip 2 Hulks.

Khan Farshatok wrote:
i could see that point of view if mineral prices weren't so completely out of hand. the drone alloys them selves balanced it out. by increasing prices on minerals all you are doing is increasing the prices on ships which then reduces the amount of fights that happen.


What's your evidence to suggest that mineral prices are out of hand? They're higher now than when mining wasn't the primary method of producing them, sure, but why are you claiming that mining being the primary means of producing minerals is a bad thing?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Khan Farshatok
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#27 - 2013-10-11 06:02:27 UTC
if you honestly cant see that mineral prices are out of hand then you havent been playing this game long enough for your opinion to matter at all.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#28 - 2013-10-11 06:35:14 UTC
Khan Farshatok wrote:
if you honestly cant see that mineral prices are out of hand then you havent been playing this game long enough for your opinion to matter at all.


Or possibly miners are actually getting some half way decent reward for their time. Mining is still by far the lowest paid profession in EVE & isn't an Isk faucet so doesn't even break the economy.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#29 - 2013-10-11 06:36:41 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Khan Farshatok wrote:
if you honestly cant see that mineral prices are out of hand then you havent been playing this game long enough for your opinion to matter at all.



They're higher than they were when a Carrier was the best mining vessel in the game. That's certainly true. What evidence do you have to show that that is a problem?

And if you can show that, how does making a Carrier the best mining vessel in the game again fix the problem?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Khan Farshatok
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#30 - 2013-10-11 06:44:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Khan Farshatok
i love how you are trying to call it a mining ship when all it is doing is killing npc's. i mean with that mentality we need to get rid of reprocessing loot from rats.

its a very simple calculation of risk over reward. putting a carrier and a noctis on the field in null sec is 3 times the risk of having two hulks in space in high sec. how should ones reward not be three times as much. as for mining being the least profitable, you have got to be insane. back when the prices of minerals were two thirds what they are now my 10 hulk pilots could turn out 5bil a day with me being lazy as hell. show me any 10 combined mission runners who even come close.


the only people who want to keep it the way it is are those who are making billions a day with no risk. there is nothing forcing them to go to null sec to make any real money. ccp has always said null's risk should always be out weighed by its reward over high sec. they have failed to do so in this instance.
Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#31 - 2013-10-11 08:51:02 UTC
Drone alloys where removed for a reason.
The most logical choice would probably be for CCP to add drone faction drops like all kinds of standard weapons that been enhanced by drones.
Kind of like the augmented drones and stuff but have like turrets and armor repairers and hardeners and all kinds of stuff enhanced.
There's a little bit of a hole where the developers could work on some tweaks and additions. Smile
Sure it would maybe take them more work than add a few numbers on the npc spawns so they increase their bounty but imo the more intresting option would be to add drone faction mods.
Khan Farshatok
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#32 - 2013-10-11 09:11:14 UTC
drone alloys were removed because the people who lived there were using bots only and then rmting their isk. ccp has no business ruining the game for other because some people break the rules.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#33 - 2013-10-11 09:15:06 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Khan Farshatok wrote:
i love how you are trying to call it a mining ship when all it is doing is killing npc's. i mean with that mentality we need to get rid of reprocessing loot from rats.


It's a ship producing minerals and nothing else of significance. What does it matter what it's shooting?
You'll notice that CCP pretty well nerfed loot reprocessing into the ground as well.

Quote:
its a very simple calculation of risk over reward. putting a carrier and a noctis on the field in null sec is 3 times the risk of having two hulks in space in high sec. how should ones reward not be three times as much. as for mining being the least profitable, you have got to be insane. back when the prices of minerals were two thirds what they are now my 10 hulk pilots could turn out 5bil a day with me being lazy as hell. show me any 10 combined mission runners who even come close.


You do you keep trying to put words in my mouth? I never said anything about "carriers outmining Hulks in highsec." A carrier noctis combo in drone space was making something like 3 or 4 times as much ISK as 2 Hulks mining in nullsec, while producing a far greater volume of minerals.

Also, I really don't think you should sell yourself so short. I wouldn't call a 31 hour day of mining in 10 Hulks "lazy as hell." 31 hours a day of managing 10 Hulks is nothing short of industrious. (20 Hours with a supporting Orca.)
Edit:
Wait, you were saying that you pulled that in when prices were 2/3 what they are now. A 46 hour day of managing 10 Hulks (30 hr with Orca) is nothing short of legend...waitforit
/Edit

Quote:
the only people who want to keep it the way it is are those who are making billions a day with no risk. there is nothing forcing them to go to null sec to make any real money. ccp has always said null's risk should always be out weighed by its reward over high sec. they have failed to do so in this instance.


And with the removal of drone poop, Nullsec mining finally has an advantage over HS mining (about 40%). Thank you for making my arguments for me.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#34 - 2013-10-11 09:19:50 UTC
AFAIK, they were removed due to their heavy influence on mineral prices.

However, I do agree they could use some loot. Since they are quite a very different faction from the others, some faction loot would be great (it's 0.0 after all). That said, we got (or are getting) some officer modules from their higher ranks... It's a good start, isn't it?
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#35 - 2013-10-11 10:46:25 UTC
The Drone Regions needs something that is true but smashing the economy in the face with the Drone Alloy shovel is not it.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2013-10-11 10:49:57 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
While I hate paying more for ships as much as everyone else, I don't think ******* over the mining profession even more by nerfing their income is something anybody should be encouraging. That profession is already horribly boring and ridiculed. It needs dev love to be an interesting and profitable mechanic, not indirect nerfs.

If you just want drone alloys back in the game, I'd support them being added as a drop in special "drone haulers" that you can catch and kill, but regular combat rogue drones should only offer a bounty, not drop alloys.



Could be easily solved by creatign another mineral sink in the economy while returnign the mineral drops for the drones.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#37 - 2013-10-11 11:23:51 UTC
make drones drop twice the salvage for making rigs

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#38 - 2013-10-11 11:39:37 UTC
Afaik chose one:

- either bounties
- or drone alloys

no special cake for you.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#39 - 2013-10-11 11:45:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Khan Farshatok wrote:
i love how you are trying to call it a mining ship when all it is doing is killing npc's. i mean with that mentality we need to get rid of reprocessing loot from rats.

its a very simple calculation of risk over reward. putting a carrier and a noctis on the field in null sec is 3 times the risk of having two hulks in space in high sec. how should ones reward not be three times as much. as for mining being the least profitable, you have got to be insane. back when the prices of minerals were two thirds what they are now my 10 hulk pilots could turn out 5bil a day with me being lazy as hell. show me any 10 combined mission runners who even come close.


the only people who want to keep it the way it is are those who are making billions a day with no risk. there is nothing forcing them to go to null sec to make any real money. ccp has always said null's risk should always be out weighed by its reward over high sec. they have failed to do so in this instance.

10 mission runners = VG. Which is 100 mil/h+ when pimped. since you had 10 hulks + orca that is the equiv of pimped. meaning they are turning 1 bill/h.
On the other hand in hulks.... you are probably talking 35/h each. Assuming serious management. So you are talking a mere 350/h.
Now since we are talking 10 hulks we are therefore comparing your income to 5 carriers with 5 Noctis. Which can easily turn over 100 mil/hour each on straight bounties. If we are talking standard Carrier income in null it would be 350/h from those I know who use Carriers. But I don't know exactly how much that is in Drone regions.
So.... I think risk reward is fine already.
Said Carriers way way out strip an equivalent number of hulks for the same time. Bragging about your 16 hour a day ISBoxed hulk fleet income doesn't negate that fact.
Now you are proposing to not only give them all the bounty income but MORE mining income than the specialist mining ship can do at the same time, when said mining ship doesn't get bounties. & doesn't get any chance of officer spawns.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-10-11 11:53:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Komodo Askold wrote:
That said, we got (or are getting) some officer modules from their higher ranks... It's a good start, isn't it?


They are in the database
I don't remember seeing any being sold anywhere though.
but I may have blinked and missed it.


[edit]
just checked dodixie
price history [1 year] and nothing for any of the officer drone mods


so either people are finding them, and not selling them
or people aren't bothering to go looking for them
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