EVE General Discussion

TEST is dying.

other people don't exist, they are just cannon fodder npc who generate tears occasionally.

A bot with tear generation implemented one might say

Oh great. Another one of these threads.

If I could go back in time, I would put on a Hilmar disguise and change two things about this game.

First, there would never have been such a thing as a miner. There would have been mining though. But all mining operations would be NPC-controlled ships that the players would commission and deploy. And these ships would be like the NPC haulers we see going to and from stations: anybody could pop them. Except you could be flagged red to the owner of the mining ship you popped. There would be none of this miners versus people trained specifically to kill unarmed ships thing. Presently it's like putting Cessnas up against helicopter gunships. So people interested in mining would not actually have had to mine, only be PVPers ready to defend their mining ops.


The other thing that would have changed is that all missions would have a PVP element to them such that anything goes in deadspace, but with the same limitations that the initial mission runner had for mission. Therefore if someone warps into the mission with the intent of killing the mission runner - which could happen anywhere - the NPCs would reinforce their numbers to match the addition and with aggro towards the newcomer. So when Mr Gank goes in for his killmail with his PVP ship, he has just as much trouble with the NPCs as the mission runner would have with the PVP ship.


Those two things would have put a permanent PVP element across the board so nobody gets a chance to be averse to it, but nobody gets to shoot fish in a barrel either.

And in the end, every thread like this boils down to people wanting easy ganks. Ganks have to be asked for. Carebears who want easy ISK already got it - even those who go into nullsec can get that thanks to local. But PVPers, having emptied lowsec of everybody except those who can fight back, have to come in here and guilt trip CCP into making it somehow easier to kill people and make demands of the usual "force people into my camp" routine.

And for one "side" needing the other. Whatever.

Grrrrrr..... Sometimes I think those who post in these threads know nothing about either PVP, PVE, or industry.

I'm not going to address the PVP side. And I still support the curtailing of ganking committed against new players.

But...

As far as industry is concerned: We have the tools we need to get the job done. Whining industrialists are simply whining, just like the whining PVP faction.

If you cannot fit a mining barge, build a fleet, and setup duties to protect yourself in high sec as a miner- Quit EVE. Please. You do not have the intellectual capacity for the game.

Every EVE player loses ships. That includes PVE and industrial people. Get used to it.

Flying a hulk outside of null sec is painfully stupid. Flying an untanked industrial is painfully stupid. Autopilot is stupid. 9 billion isk in a freighter is beyond stupid.

Look, if you are a PVE guy.... fit for PVP not PVE and do lower level missions until you can get better ships, or a decent overkill gang together to support you. If you are in industry... it's hard... you have to train for everything the PVP guys do, plus the industrial skills.

The hardest job in EVE is that of an industrialist. That's because the rewards are IMMENSE.

Learn how to play the game.

To be a successful "carebear" you must have the mind of a pirate.

I would also add the note about Its counterpart, termed PVPism by fans, or in its extreme form just swear words Is the normal growth of aggressive thoughts and tendencies towards others that can only be acted out through electronics and an internet connection. Periods of intense PVPing without sleep following by a prolonged sequelae of carebearism are associated with bi-carebearism, a debilitating illness.

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http://thearchertheteacher.blogspot.ca/

I thought thread looked old. Where'd you find it, page 64?

I hope to say something intelligent here and hereby close this thread.





Here is a nugget but only a nugget. There are in fact many paradigms on which emergent gameplay could be developed. Since our own creativity is limited to at best the combination of two known disciplines into a new third, to create requires mastery of at least two of the many disciplines available in Eve.

In this example the discipline of preserving is given a name and then combined with a second name destroyer as a cause to create a foundation. That's a valid religious combinatorial paradigm.

Our more familiar risk versus reward theory is very similar to Clausewitz's Rationale Calculus of War. In this paradigm the destroyers are given the term military and the preservers would be called citizens. The destructive PVPers are insurgents trying to occupy preserving citizens. The hope of maintaining any new creation is the creation of terms both can live with. Anything less results in an unstable created foundation.

But to only consider the two disciplines of destruction and preservation is to sell eve very short. I can think of at LEAST to other paradigms each with many disciplines that can be combined into an emergent creation, stable or unstable.

The two paradigms I would consider are the business model and the storyline. There business model idea can be as varied as many novel income streams and complex models of idealistic and mathematics can be shaped within the confines of the game tools and 3rd party tools external to the game.

The storyline we are of course familiar with. We have backstory for structure. Some of it was created by CCP even more has emerged in game. Conflicts between characters, factions and stakeholders can combine with a steady stream of game updates to create new stories and powers. In game tools for this are very limited but people familiar with creative writing or screenplay production can sketch these rather quickly into new channels for others efforts.

I'd love to here of more paradigms like this or even detailed listings of disciplines. Mastery of a discipline are often undervalued resources we often possess. Other disciplines often provide motives to act. Combinations of these two can create a new game of our own making.

Before I close, capital and social circles are always present if creation is to bare real fruit. We need a lot of money and more than a few friends.

You are also much less likely to be involved in a road accident than getting ganked if you're busy playing EvE.

Doh.

- gathering more ISK thus making inflation and making PvP more expensive and less affordable?
- docking and playing other games thus making CCP think what to do?

Actually by the definition you provide it is PaP ( player against player ) PvP would require both players to fight each other.

So ganking is PaP unless the gankee fired back at which point it is PvP even if the gankee was doing PvE at the time.