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Dev Blog: New Player Training Sessions

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Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#41 - 2013-10-09 22:18:43 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
Down the line we would like to see this seminar program incorporated into a completely player driven venture. That is the ideal goal.
Don't you ALREADY have a completely player driven venture from E-Uni, RvB, Brave Newbies, Agony, etc.? I think the "fix" here is just to educate new players about the importance of leaving the NPC corps and moving into an actual training corp already in game. Honestly, I don't see how these seminars are any different than classes that E-Uni offers, for example, especially considering now that they are free to everyone to attend.

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Jinrai Tremaine
Cheese It Inc
#42 - 2013-10-09 22:26:45 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Nine years, guys. Nine years. Guest classes, open to all. Recordings for classes if you missed them, video walkthroughs, and a well-documented wiki.

E-UNI has been doing this for nine years, and staying out of any political BS so that everyone can benefit from its teaching.

Nice to see CCP finally recognising all the work everyone has put into all that, like the 6 years I spent running it as a second full-time job... oh, wait.

CCP, I am dissapoint.


glepp - IMHO, there's little chance of them putting Agony out of business. At least though attempts to teach...


Kelduum, don't let the bittervetness overwhelm you. Yeah, this is long overdue, but at least it's happening now and props to CCP for recognising the benefits of it. Whether or not CCP acknowledge you/E-Uni by name (and I very much hope they do; if anyone deserves faction scorpions...) the fact that they're doing this at all is a testament to the success that EVE Uni, Agony Unleashed and the various other open training corps have had over the years.

If you really feel the need to show that player organisations can do this better than CCP then (IMHO at least) the best way to do so is to get involved and prove your point; that way the rookies still benefit from expert tuition.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#43 - 2013-10-09 22:35:38 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
We will be doing this by advertising them in-game via rookie corporations and the Rookie Help Chat.
See, this again is confusing. There are a lot of corps in game that already function as training centers, but it doesn't appear that you'll be advertising their services (or even a link to a website that lists them all), presumably because you don't want to show favoritism to one corp over another, yet you'll spawn hundreds of billions of isk for SOMER Blink. Confusing, CCP, that you won't help legitimate institutions that enrich the game itself, instead opting to support Eve's online casino. If new players don't last long enough from being new--normally by getting into one of the recognized training corps--then they'll never get around to playing blink and funneling GTC sales to you. :-/

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Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#44 - 2013-10-09 22:45:09 UTC
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2013-10-09 22:47:02 UTC
Quote:
Track: Player vs Player Combat
October 15, 17:00 UTC – Modules
October 17, 17:00 UTC – Fitting Your Ship
October 22, 17:00 UTC – Earning ISK
October 24, 17:00 UTC – The Overview and UI
October 29, 17:00 UTC – Piloting Your Ship
October 31, 17:00 UTC – Skills
November 5, 17:00 UTC – Crimewatch (Featuring live demonstrations)
November 7, 17:00 UTC – Combat Basics
November 12, 17:00 UTC – Teamwork
November 16, 17:00 UTC – PVP Fleet
November 18, 17:00 UTC – Progression: What’s Next?

Now this is all fine and great and I sincerely hope you have much success as well as wish you the very best.

However, I'd like to point out that not all new players want to do PvP content, some like doing PvE content. It seems that the first half of your list (October) could also benefit those who want to do PvE content but the title of the seminars (Player vs Player Combat) will probably discourage them from participating.

Now I realize new players are hard pressed to do competent ship fits due to lack of knowledge about various modules / ship fitting and It's great that you're addressing those issues in the seminars. In my opinion those issues go hand in hand with the lack of training Core Fitting Skills which I believe should be reviewed right from the start.

Now I don't know what you'll be covering in the Skills seminar but it might be wise to split that up into 2 parts (Part 1 Basic / Part 2 Advanced) and have the Basic (Core Fitting Skills) seminar first before getting into Modules and Ship Fitting.

A couple of other things I noticed too is no seminars listed for Clones (Jump & Medical), Implants or Standings / Security Status. I guess Standings / Security Status would be covered in the Crimewatch seminar. Anyway, I definitely think Clones should be addressed early, especially about keeping their Medical Clone updated.

Well, that's my 2 ISK worth of opinion. Hope you have good luck with the program.



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#46 - 2013-10-09 23:02:59 UTC
Mangala Solaris wrote:
Awesome news for newer players is this initiative.

Im sure I'll be on tap to help welcome them to eve with open gun ports.


Just don't mistake a show of respect as a hostile act. That went badly for the EAS Prometheus.
Tex Bloodhunter
SciFiCentral Explorations Inc.
#47 - 2013-10-09 23:06:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tex Bloodhunter
I'm thinking this would become pretty fun if experienced players were given a team of rookies. The teams would then compete alliance tournament style but obviously more focussed on having a good time than on winning. The leg work (team allocation, API keys, teamspeak/mumble setup) however would need to be done before - so null sec folks can just jump clone in, give out a few fittings, have everbody buy stuff in jita and then get right to FCing / PVP.
Stay Thirsty
The Chosen Children
#48 - 2013-10-09 23:06:48 UTC
I totally support this initiative.

And to those that have sand in their underwear over the fact CCP is doing this internally versus using one of the "Rookie" corps, there are very solid reasons.

1. This allows new players to learn from someone they inherently trust. When you get into Eve some of the first things you will hear is don't trust anyone and beware of someone trying to scam you into a corp. You have no idea if Eve Uni is a good corp or just another con job. Therefore a bunch of new players just try to go it alone. By CCP being the instructor, it is likely more players will get involved.

2. There is no political drama. And don't say the organizations are drama free.....because that is just naivety. If there wasn't you wouldn't have to put in your .api, have all your alts known, etc. Anytime you have a corp you have drama, politics, financial considerations, etc. This will allow a player to stay somewhat outside of this while trying to learn.

3. CCP has more tools at their disposal than a player corp does, like their dev-hacs which allow random spawns, fleet jumps, etc.

4. CCP has already stated they will involve some of the other player corps when the timing is right. So just sit back, have a drink, and do your thing until you are called to help.

In the meantime, I look forward to seeing how these go. If nothing else maybe I will start a new toon just to play along.....you never know everything and I am sure these will be very fun and informative.
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#49 - 2013-10-09 23:22:31 UTC
May I suggest putting a new player in a IWS and if it survives against all the raging people in eve, we call it new eden natural selection and welcome them to them fold Cool

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

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Robby Altair
#50 - 2013-10-09 23:27:42 UTC
New Player Training Sessions are a great idea. With hard work the sessions should be very helpful to new players.

"In my day, we had to use the EVE University Class Library, and take those excellent courses from Agony Unleashed."

I sure the E-UNI basic, RvB, and Agony basic fleets will be no problem at all. Good hunting. Roll

Room 3420 Boelter Hall UCLA
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#51 - 2013-10-10 00:09:17 UTC
Excellent idea.

Can I suggest a session on 'What to do when you lose a ship" (covering saving your pod in high/low and also the significant differences in null); and also a session on fighting smaller and larger ship classes than yourself.

As an example of the latter - something on how a solo cruiser pilot can react to catching a battleship, and also how that cruiser pilot might try to handle a frigate.

A final suggestion - Saving your ship. ECM drones, gate cloaks, deaggression - all the different ways to escape a battle you cannot win.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#52 - 2013-10-10 00:09:23 UTC
This is a fantastic idea as long as it isn't a one off. If this series of classes were run on a regular basis it would be tremendously beneficial.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#53 - 2013-10-10 00:16:30 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Nine years, guys. Nine years. Guest classes, open to all. Recordings for classes if you missed them, video walkthroughs, and a well-documented wiki.

E-UNI has been doing this for nine years, and staying out of any political BS so that everyone can benefit from its teaching.

Nice to see CCP finally recognising all the work everyone has put into all that, like the 6 years I spent running it as a second full-time job... oh, wait.

CCP, I am dissapoint.


glepp - IMHO, there's little chance of them putting Agony out of business. At least though attempts to teach...



Correct me if I am wrong, but EVE Uni places requirements on behaviour of its members, right?

As in you can't use deception in market PVP (scamming etc), and can't fly recklessly during wartime, and can't have a history of being an AWOXer? (The last one is a pretty sensible opsec requirement).


This event can be for people that fit the EVE Uni mould, for people that fit the Brave Newbies mould, and for people that have not made up their mind yet.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#54 - 2013-10-10 00:20:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelduum Revaan
Ranger 1 wrote:
Well, since they made of point of saying that organizations like yours directly inspired the effort...
They have been saying the same thing since before E-UNI existed, making vague promises and suggestions they will do things in the future.

There comes a time when you just get tired of waiting for that bus, and decide to walk...

Edit: I wish CCP luck in this - they will need it. It was literally a full time job when I ran E-UNI, and I suspect they will have a significant problem finding enough volunteers to keep this running it for no reward. Unless they are paying them all in Gold Scorpions.
John Caffeine
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2013-10-10 00:30:07 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
He dares wrote:
Why not help groups like eve uni and agony do this they have been doing a long time anyway and probably know the mechanics better than most devs they are also practiced at dealing with large classes?


Part of what we are looking to do is to invite guests from the likes of EVE Uni, Agony, RvB and others to come along and be guest lecturers and instructors. Down the line we would like to see this seminar program incorporated into a completely player driven venture. That is the ideal goal.



Will you be inviting guest lecturers only from ingame educational institutions like Eve-Uni, or will it be possible for other alliances and corporations to volunteer as well?

If you aim to make it a player driven program: do you think it will be a team of ISD volunteers or a program run by ingame entities?
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#56 - 2013-10-10 00:30:18 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but EVE Uni places requirements on behaviour of its members, right?


You can scam, gank and be a **** in local as much as you want, as long as its not traceable back to E-UNI, as EVE players have a long memory and it could negatively affect the other members.

This is why everyone has multiple character slots, after all...

And none of this prevents anyone joining any of the public classes, posting on the forum, chatting on mumble, listening to the recordings of going through the resources on the wiki.
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#57 - 2013-10-10 00:51:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Argus Sorn
CCP Navigator wrote:
He dares wrote:
Why not help groups like eve uni and agony do this they have been doing a long time anyway and probably know the mechanics better than most devs they are also practiced at dealing with large classes?


Part of what we are looking to do is to invite guests from the likes of EVE Uni, Agony, RvB and others to come along and be guest lecturers and instructors. Down the line we would like to see this seminar program incorporated into a completely player driven venture. That is the ideal goal.



CCP doing this ensures that it is done correctly and fairly.

I mean, to hand this over to a purely player driven, in game entity would show favoritism toward that entity. And while all of those entities might be honest and forthright, to show any of them favoritism over another would be a conflict of interest. CCP of course, would like to avoid any perceived conflict of interest.

Additionally, tying an event or promotion to an in game player run organization might also make some players feel uncomfortable participating, since it de facto forces an involvement with that player entity in order to get involved and players should not have to join a player run corporation or website to be eligible, or even support CCP's endorsement of them to be eligible.

Wow. You guys are so smart. Glad you are in charge. LOL.
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#58 - 2013-10-10 01:09:28 UTC
Stay Thirsty wrote:

2. There is no political drama. And don't say the organizations are drama free.....because that is just naivety. If there wasn't you wouldn't have to put in your .api, have all your alts known, etc. Anytime you have a corp you have drama, politics, financial considerations, etc. This will allow a player to stay somewhat outside of this while trying to learn.
.


Inserting relevant comic about E-UNI recruitment practices here:

http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20120625
Stay Thirsty
The Chosen Children
#59 - 2013-10-10 01:39:42 UTC
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
Stay Thirsty wrote:

2. There is no political drama. And don't say the organizations are drama free.....because that is just naivety. If there wasn't you wouldn't have to put in your .api, have all your alts known, etc. Anytime you have a corp you have drama, politics, financial considerations, etc. This will allow a player to stay somewhat outside of this while trying to learn.
.


Inserting relevant comic about E-UNI recruitment practices here:

http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20120625


Exactly my point......by that time many of them have either concluded it is a scam (their perception) or not worth the hassle.

The cartoon is funny, and very appropriate for any of the organized corps.
Chigurh Friendo
Fight The Blob
#60 - 2013-10-10 02:46:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Chigurh Friendo
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
For this to work you have to inform those "new players" such thing will take place, don't think many of them read devblogs.


Great point. Broadcasts in Rookie Help and/or mails to younger players could help to disseminate the information schedule.

Ubat Batuk wrote:
Please ensure that you make these sessions as professional as possible. Do not allow trolling at all and record the sessions for sharing on youtube and eve main site.

Ideally once you have these done, you could also get the learning agents to point the player at the videos and live sessions.


Agreed.

Wouldn't it be great if these sessions were recorded and broken down into searchable topic-by-topic video segments hosted by CCP? Further, wouldn't it make sense if the help tooltip (and/or Aura) actually linked to these resources? Perhaps, these video segments could be included within Evelopedia as embedded resources...

If CCP is going down this route, then the man-hours involved in making a reference that can be consulted more broadly at a later date would probably warrant the time investment involved on CCP's part. Moreover, it would canvas a broader audience than what could effectively be reached by discrete appointment-style training sessions.