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A review of player giveaways with CCP and third party sites

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#801 - 2013-10-09 01:17:01 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
1 trillion isk could conservatively cover a major alliance srp, excluding supercapitals, through 2-4 months of fullscale bloc warfare, which is the average length of such engagements. For 500b a month you could run a medium size nullsec alliance just for ***** and/or giggles.

But they already have the SRP in said major alliances. You could run a medium size alliance, after you build it sure. For.... Two months. I don't see how a medium size alliance for a brief period of time would actually create a significant shift in the game. Nor would it simply happen because you have the isk. You would have to put a lot of hard work in regardless. Which would be the real thing. The isk is just convenience initially, but for the amount of work to make an alliance work, you could easily have earned that isk anyway.


Your post is nonsense...actually your posts in general are nonsense, you should stop.

Yes.... Because pointing out that your points A: Are already existing so don't actually change the current meta. B: That the isk doesn't magically create an alliance to change the current meta & that the work involved in doing so would be more significant than that needed to earn the isk yourself is nonsense.
Feel free to keep going though. You are just making my point better so far. That the isk value isn't relevant to the actual problems. And it is the communication issue that is the real problem that needs solving. As with that solved, the Isk value would be dramatically smaller anyway
Shad Duken
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#802 - 2013-10-09 01:22:18 UTC
Just to clarify the actual point here:

Is it about the money, or isn't it?

A lot of people are arguing that it isn't, it's about the secrecy in which the ships were handed out and that the items in themselves aren't the problem.

Other people are commenting that it's all about the isk and that the amount of isk these ships could generate could unduly influence the game's economy, or the events in-game (by the liquid isk injection of 500b - btw, a lot of people are now talking about 1t. It was 450b-600b, which is a still not inconsiderable amount of wealth that could affect certain events).


The first point - the secrecy - is something we can speculate on to our heart's content because as yet we have no facts regarding any CCP "complicity". Until I see their response, I'll hold my remarks.

As to the second point - the isk - this needs to be broken further down, I think.

Collectors losing isk: interestingly, the most hurt by this mail being leaked at an immediate stage are the collectors. If the mail hadn't been leaked, the prices would likely have remained at the level they are, or higher as the ships were destroyed. If CCP had already confirmed they were going to be given out, then as some have said, they speculated and have lost.

Redistribution of wealth: 450b hasn't appeared out of thin air. 450b has moved from the hands of collectors to 30 people who had ships appear as they did to the other 90ish people they were given to (or more maybe depending on how you read the comment that they've been given out before). This isk movement is simply that - redistribution of wealth.

Null/Bloc/FW could be affected by 450b: Yes, it could. Of course 450b would make an enormous difference with the most recent TEST/CFC war being a great example of how things could've turned. Of course, this is a fallacy unless SOMER employ only from one corp/alliance/FW faction. They don't (or they certainly don't appear to) as they advertise on their site for employees and limit the selection only to people who play blink from what I can gather. 15-20b per person is still a hell of a lot of isk, but it's not game-breaking as some people seem to be suggesting.


My point? As Jessie J would say, "It's not about the money, money, money...."
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#803 - 2013-10-09 01:33:11 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
...


No, you suggested that the value was generally meaningless. I showed that it is far from that. The rest is just you being irrevocably stupid.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#804 - 2013-10-09 01:53:56 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
And so the great forum purging begins, moving threads to their death in subforums, locking threads and pointing the discussion to random, completely unrelated threads, etc


CCP has started and is in Damage Control.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#805 - 2013-10-09 02:22:46 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
...


No, you suggested that the value was generally meaningless. I showed that it is far from that. The rest is just you being irrevocably stupid.

Congratulations on reading comprehension fails, given I directly stated it was a significant amount. Just not enough to affect the entire games meta. Simply slinging insults & ad hominem attacks do not make you any more correct. Nor have you provided any evidence to say it will affect the meta in any significant matter.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#806 - 2013-10-09 03:20:17 UTC
CCP Response WiP: Soon
Octoven
Stellar Production
#807 - 2013-10-09 07:31:45 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
So it has been a day of reading up on your comments throughout the forums and social media and I appreciate that many of you have been rational and reasoned in your views. As a result, we have looked at the situation and we will make some pretty significant changes to this prize structure which still allows players to gain something truly amazing but does not impact the overall history of EVE Online. Since I made my first post as a FAQ, I will continue that pattern and explain a little about the decision process.

Q1, So what are these changes you are talking about and why change it at all?

A1, Let me address the second question first. We grossly underestimated the impact of these historical legacy ships and how they would impact players, especially those who have been in our universe for close to a decade or more. We have taken this feedback on board and will amend the prize structure accordingly. The two prize items which really caused the most vocal dissent were the Gold Magnate and Guardian Vexor, a total of 5 ships. We have decided to remove these as prizes and replace them with a different option.

During the live presentation of our winter expansion announcement on Thursday, September 26 at 20:00 UTC we will be unveiling what players can expect to see with this release. Part of the expansion involves new models coming for everyone in the shape of a new cruiser and frigate. I will not elaborate on what they are just now but you can see them in all of their glory by watching our Twitch stream. What we will offer players as an alternative is as follows:

• Prize 1 (previously a Gold Magnate) will now become the option of either [a unique variant of the new cruiser with enhanced stats and a different skin] or [an all-expense paid trip to Fanfest 2014]

• Prize 2 (previously a Gold Magnate) will now become the option of either [the unique variant of the new cruiser with enhanced stats and a different skin] or [an all-expense paid trip to Fanfest 2014]

• Prize 3 (previously a Guardian Vexor) will now become [the unique variant of the new cruiser with enhanced stats and a different skin]

• Prize 3 (previously a Guardian Vexor) will now become [the unique variant of the new cruiser with enhanced stats and a different skin]

• Prize 3 (previously a Guardian Vexor) will now become [the unique variant of the new cruiser with enhanced stats and a different skin]

These new cruisers will be unique assets that will be owned only by these players. We will not give these out again.

Q2, I still don’t get it. Why a third party to give this stuff away?

A2, Growing community initiatives is something which is very important to us. Some of our fansites and third party outlets have 10 followers while others have tens of thousands. What we want to do is look at opportunities to foster goodwill with a range of sites and allow situations where we can support them and help them grow. As a result, we will be looking at putting a process in place which allows individual sites to run promotions which are sponsored by CCP. This may not always be unique ships or Fanfest trips but could be some signed artwork to give away or PLEX to hand out.

We have looked at this as a trial version of a program we would like to develop over time. In this instance, we jumped the gun and went too far.

Q3, How do we know we can trust Fansites and third parties to operate fairly and independently?

A3, We have worked with a lot of third party sites in the past such as EVE Radio, BIG Lottery and SOMER Blink. These entities (and others of course) have demonstrated a solid history of trust and reliability. As a result, we can verify that they have been straight and true in their dealings and this should be encouraged.

Q4, So will you move all valuable in-game giveaways internally now?

A4, We want to address this in our upcoming process discussion surrounding 3rd party sponsorship. We want to provide as much support for our community as possible, and one of the most meaningful ways to do that is with special, rare or limited edition items on Tranquility. We need to investigate whether that approach is ultimately positive for EVE before we make a decision about whether future item giveaways should be done only directly from CCP.

Many thanks for all of your patience during this time and we hope this explains some of our thinking. We would also like to address the role of SOMER Blink in this change. They have had three years of constantly delivering on every blink, blast and bonk they have organized. Clearly, this is going to change in this circumstance and this is not their fault in the slightest. We are aware players have played blinks to get involved in the lottery and there is nothing we can do to reverse those transactions. We believe the replacement prizes are of such a high value as to be equal compensation.



These are some well thought changes and plans; however, this changes nothing about what CCP has already done. My question is if you are truly sincere in your convictions would it not be wise to rescind the prizes you have given out through haste actions and let them get them through the new methods instead?

Allowing these individuals to retain these special scorpions basically keeps the insult on the rest of the eve community alive. If you truly wish to engage in damage control this is the more viable option. If you allow them to keep them its a bit like putting a band-aid on a broken arm.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#808 - 2013-10-09 13:09:31 UTC
Still waiting for them to address the fact that the third party excludes paying subscribers at their discretion, people who should have been allowed to partake in these lotteries weren't allowed to because somer has their own special (unjustifiable, but good for their little business) rules

and also that somer actually did require people to pay in order to play
Prince Kobol
#809 - 2013-10-09 13:44:42 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Still waiting for them to address the fact that the third party excludes paying subscribers at their discretion, people who should have been allowed to partake in these lotteries weren't allowed to because somer has their own special (unjustifiable, but good for their little business) rules

and also that somer actually did require people to pay in order to play


Its pretty simple why people have been banned.

Somerblink is a site which is heavily targeted by bots and people trying to scam them, which is no surprise due to them paying out in isk.

They use a number of automated tools, like most other sites of this nature, to catch those people.

Some times it gets it wrong.

Also if multiple accounts are accessing the site from the same IP then they are also most likely to get banned.

If you believe you were wrongly banned then simply contact there help channel.
Shai 'Hulud
#810 - 2013-10-09 20:04:06 UTC
http://www.eveonline.com/sandbox/personality-analysis/

I can't find an input combination that results in "Dev's friend" for a career path. Perhaps it is bugged?

The most useful slaves are those that believe themselves to be free
Baron vonDoom
Scorn.
#811 - 2013-10-10 00:31:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Baron vonDoom
The real problem is selective favouritism of a select group that is the least deserving twice in a row.

Somer is a self-serving group feeding on the braindead - I just looked at the site for the first time and it's so obviously set up for scamming the hell out of dumb people without any grasp of statistcs, leaving me surprised of how many genuinely stupid people are playing this game.

CCP could have easily snuck their personal gift initiative past me by giving it to really deserving people like Chribba, Ceators of Evemon or EFT, but no - they gave it to an immoral slot-machine site - twice in a row.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#812 - 2013-10-10 05:22:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Erotica 1
Seems this thread is still active and stickied while the first actual response from CCP has not been. It can be found here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=284991

On page 1, I lay out a summary of many of the concerns. I also show CCP a solution that actually recently worked for a major US corporation that was also in the middle of a major PR disaster.

It is not about positioning. It is about being honest and acting in good faith.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Kalindra Chan
#813 - 2013-10-10 05:31:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalindra Chan
I wont go into detail because most points have been covered so far:

Giving a In-Game entitiy the posibility to earn In-Game currency without either doing a) In-Game activity or b) buying PLEX and turn them into In-Game currency is wrong.
I dont care that much about the value of those unique ships given to Somer blink, what i care is the In-Game money they make every second without having to do any In-Game activity for it. If they had to use the Eve Online client to do their scam like the scammers in Jita, etc. do, then it would still be wrong but not against your EULA! And no, using the In-Game browser accessing Somer blinks website is not my idea of using the Eve client...

You smack any Eve player in the face, wether it is a solo player or the biggest alliances who actually have to "play" the game to make money.

I am going to point out what is going to happen if you let Somer blink continue their "NOT-In-Game business"... I will stop playing Eve Online and cancel my accounts and i guess and hope that many other Eve Players will too!


I forgot to add... acutally i am glad this incident with those free ships happend, because before that i didnt know about Somer blinks website, what they are doing and that it is not only allowed by you CCP but encouraged and sponsored!

I'm a trap!
Prince Kobol
#814 - 2013-10-10 11:04:56 UTC
Kalindra Chan wrote:
I wont go into detail because most points have been covered so far:

Giving a In-Game entitiy the posibility to earn In-Game currency without either doing a) In-Game activity or b) buying PLEX and turn them into In-Game currency is wrong.
I dont care that much about the value of those unique ships given to Somer blink, what i care is the In-Game money they make every second without having to do any In-Game activity for it. If they had to use the Eve Online client to do their scam like the scammers in Jita, etc. do, then it would still be wrong but not against your EULA! And no, using the In-Game browser accessing Somer blinks website is not my idea of using the Eve client...

You smack any Eve player in the face, wether it is a solo player or the biggest alliances who actually have to "play" the game to make money.

I am going to point out what is going to happen if you let Somer blink continue their "NOT-In-Game business"... I will stop playing Eve Online and cancel my accounts and i guess and hope that many other Eve Players will too!


I forgot to add... acutally i am glad this incident with those free ships happend, because before that i didnt know about Somer blinks website, what they are doing and that it is not only allowed by you CCP but encouraged and sponsored!


Another do what I say or I quit post..

Bye Bye
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#815 - 2013-10-11 05:07:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Argus Sorn
As I posted elsewhere:

"This is a really unique thing CCP is doing that doesn't directly map to anything they have done in the past, and we don't want to mess up that future relationship."

That quote from Somer himself, combined with the clearly pro-somer response of the devs in these threads raises serious questions about conflicts of interest. What is the future "relationship" that they are hoping for?
Miss Ladybird
Doomheim
#816 - 2013-10-12 01:10:23 UTC
I read the OP and it ignores the glaring issues.

People hate it that SomberBlink was given hundreds of billions in assets, spawned by ccp, because:

1) It is filthy rich as it is, and at their punters expense as they are glorified scam artists

2) People dont see how SomerBlink does good for the community, it is ONLINE GAMBLING, they rip people off and rake in their isk hand over fist. People lose billions on there that they could be enjoying in game. Nobody with half a brain likes their service or considers it altruistic.

3) What they provide IS NOT CONTENT.

4) They dont need 'support' or 'help' from CCP employers that have meddling hands and cant pry themselves from injecting freee assets into the game

5) SomerBlink keeps being held out to be a great institution and community hub. LOL it isnt at all this is total garbage. If you believe this you may as well believe in fairys.

This uproar is not just because we are unhappy, it is because we cannot stomach this constant stream of insults to our intelligence.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#817 - 2013-10-12 03:51:25 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
It is not about positioning. It is about being honest and acting in good faith.

It's all about posturing and insisting the other side is dumb because 1 trit.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#818 - 2013-10-12 03:52:29 UTC
Miss Ladybird wrote:
5) SomerBlink keeps being held out to be a great institution and community hub. LOL it isnt at all this is total garbage. If you believe this you may as well believe in fairys.

Has ccp told me the faeries "have demonstrated a solid history of trust and reliability. As a result, we can verify that they have been straight and true in their dealings and this should be encouraged."

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
GORNASHA
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#819 - 2013-10-12 13:25:15 UTC
ok...I've read through over 40 pages of comments and queries and I have just one question to ask.


why is there no official response to over 40 pages of comments regarding their actions with Somer Blink and the prizes donated?


(I counted only 2 official responses and they where both to remove non forum related posts - so we know they are reading these posts but are not replying)
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#820 - 2013-10-12 14:33:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Argus Sorn
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Wow.

More goon tears. ♫


This keeps coming up and I am not sure why. First, look around, there are a lot of non-goons here. But, for the record, if being clear thinking and intelligent enough to see an obvious breach of business ethics when it happens makes you a goon.

I am a goon.

If seeing an obvious RMT profit making scheme for what it is and understanding that CCP shouldn't be getting in bed with or supporting and endorsing the entity responsible makes you a goon.

I am a goon.

If seeing that an explanation that involves telling me that you like SOMERblink because they hand out lots of isk is a form of influence peddling makes me a goon.

Then yes,

I am a goon!

Big smile