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Faction Warfare and pirates...sigh

Author
Major Killz
SLAVORUM
#21 - 2013-10-07 23:04:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
You know. I'm starting to think CCP will introduce Interceptors that have 3 warp stabs built in and are nullified.

Might start having REAL TIME camp monitoring too. Like threw the billboards and sh!t. Change the channel in your captain's quarters to see what OMS or AMAMAKE gate is like... Game seems to be going that way.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

Cage Man
Comms Black
Evictus.
#22 - 2013-10-08 01:58:19 UTC
Join a corp and they can help you get a foot hold. MMO's generally shouldn't be played solo.
Mycael
Obvious is Obvious
FATAL ORDER
#23 - 2013-10-08 08:02:32 UTC
Cage Man wrote:
Join a corp and they can help you get a foot hold. MMO's generally shouldn't be played solo.


He didn't blow up alone.
Seraph Castillon
Andromeda Corp
#24 - 2013-10-08 09:00:54 UTC
If you want to play FW then live in low sec and learn how to live in lowsec.
Alaric Faelen
El Ultimo Hombre
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2013-10-08 15:01:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaric Faelen
Pirates at a gate aren't 'griefing' anymore than the enemy FW is when they camp gates or plex clusters. Denial of travel, resources, reinforcement, etc are among the most common tactics in any sort of warfare.
Nowhere does it say FW is strictly a two sided affair. That is an artificial and flatly incorrect interpretation of FW in the first place. What you want is R-v-B if you want clearly defined 'sides', designated combat areas, and artificial limitations on how wars are fought. FW is an organic war, taking place in space populated by civilians, including care bears, explorers AND pirates. They all are part of FW, whether they are in a milita or not.

Real militaries rarely operate lone warships during an open conflict (submarines being an exception), so flying solo into hostile space and being bushwhacked is a failing of tactics, not the game.
Much like the incident with the USS Pueblo in 1968. Essentially the US Navy had a multi-billion dollar T2 spy ship ganked. Lost to what amounted to pirates (for all intents and purposes- compared to the navy they stole the ship from, it's a fair assessment) because it was without escort in hostile waters.
TBH, it demonstrates how close Eve comes to 'being real' at times. Flying alone in hostile space is wholly unrealistic for any military, and the tactic works as well in Eve as it does in RL.

The term pirate is also somewhat misapplied. It could simply be that the people that live in those regions don't want ANY of the empires there. Consider Afghanistan as an RL model- the people that actually live there hated BOTH the US and the (former) USSR. The locals accepted the help of the US to defeat the USSR during the 80's, then immediately turned on the US when the Russians left- their ultimate goal to expel BOTH sides from their land.
Just like in RL, most of the military fighting in contested regions don't actually live there- they come from Empire space. They arrive in death machines to blow things up, kill anyone not 'blue' to them, then leave and go home to the safety of high sec. Leaving the people native to the contested space living in a state of constant fear and deprivation, just wanting to farm their PI while seeing both sides of the ongoing war as 'the bad guy'.


One capsuleer's terrorist is another capsuleer's freedom fighterBig smile
Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-10-08 16:00:52 UTC
Seraph Castillon wrote:
If you want to play FW then live in low sec and learn how to live in lowsec.

Not always an option. I work offshore for 2 weeks of every month and currently have ships stuck in Sahtogas after we lost it whenever it was while I was at work. I tried searching for a neutral station but apparently they kick you out too when your faction loses the system.

I now use an alt in a throw away frigate to recon my intended route from high sec before undocking something more expensive. Kind of a PITA but it works. Still looking for a better solution in the meantime.
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
#27 - 2013-10-08 16:44:42 UTC
This man gets it

IbanezLaney wrote:
The answer is -

Don't go to High sec.

Then you wont have to pass any camps to enter low sec.

nom nom

Anslo
Scope Works
#28 - 2013-10-08 16:44:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
If it makes you feel any better, not all of us gate camp. I personally find it boring, as do the others.

EDIT: Ask Aideron, RvB, E-Uni, Brave Newbies, Sicarius, or others. We might be sort of flashy but we wanna have fun. Camping is not fun. Fights, gudfites, are fun :)

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Seraph Castillon
Andromeda Corp
#29 - 2013-10-08 21:45:04 UTC
Koujjo Dian wrote:
Seraph Castillon wrote:
If you want to play FW then live in low sec and learn how to live in lowsec.

Not always an option. I work offshore for 2 weeks of every month and currently have ships stuck in Sahtogas after we lost it whenever it was while I was at work. I tried searching for a neutral station but apparently they kick you out too when your faction loses the system.


Base out of true stronghold systems then. If your faction cannot be trusted to hold on to any system then base out of systems that are outside of the warzone, but are still lowsec.
Deviant X
Deviant Inc
Apocalypse Now.
#30 - 2013-10-09 02:07:20 UTC
Dotlan Maps is your friend. As is getting to know the settings for the in-game map.

There is some good advice in this thread:

1. Join an established FW corp to teach you the ropes.
2. Join a training corp. There are a few corporations, schools, that help new players survive pvp. This will expand your survival to null sec where some mechanics are ... more aggressive. Then do FW.

Corps to talk to? This one, I will let you research. Twisted You should not need more than a 3-8 weeks to get through their programs.

Good luck and have fun.
Pinky Feldman
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-10-09 06:03:41 UTC
Legality wrote:
SO as a new player to eve and Faction warfare.
ALL I see are pirate corps set up on gates to low sec coming from High sec and insta poping and poding newbies.

As in all games where the masses are allowed to play there will always be "greivers", but that leaves me to 1 question

Why would anyone play THIS game if they are blown up every time they decided to go and try to plex a system, when your only route is thru the one gate where 10 pirates are posted waiting for you.

Sure isk is easy to make, after you have established time in the game and have the resources to earn it
Sure combat is easy, after you have established the time in the game to use the stuff that makes it easy.

I started with 5k isk and a ship that does lol 11 dps. so how am I to make isk in FW when I cant outrun, outgun or hold my ground from their assaults.

Not really seeing the fun in that.


This is why I am not playing EVE right now because griever blow up my ship too much and don't want fights only ganks. You are totally right and the sad thing is that it is not much better even when you have lots of SP like me because WINMATAR. is pretty much unstoppable right now so why should I undock if they just blow up my ship everytime and have already won FW.
Pinky Feldman
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-10-09 06:06:40 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:
Pirates at a gate aren't 'griefing' anymore than the enemy FW is when they camp gates or plex clusters. Denial of travel, resources, reinforcement, etc are among the most common tactics in any sort of warfare.
Nowhere does it say FW is strictly a two sided affair. That is an artificial and flatly incorrect interpretation of FW in the first place. What you want is R-v-B if you want clearly defined 'sides', designated combat areas, and artificial limitations on how wars are fought. FW is an organic war, taking place in space populated by civilians, including care bears, explorers AND pirates. They all are part of FW, whether they are in a milita or not.

Real militaries rarely operate lone warships during an open conflict (submarines being an exception), so flying solo into hostile space and being bushwhacked is a failing of tactics, not the game.
Much like the incident with the USS Pueblo in 1968. Essentially the US Navy had a multi-billion dollar T2 spy ship ganked. Lost to what amounted to pirates (for all intents and purposes- compared to the navy they stole the ship from, it's a fair assessment) because it was without escort in hostile waters.
TBH, it demonstrates how close Eve comes to 'being real' at times. Flying alone in hostile space is wholly unrealistic for any military, and the tactic works as well in Eve as it does in RL.

The term pirate is also somewhat misapplied. It could simply be that the people that live in those regions don't want ANY of the empires there. Consider Afghanistan as an RL model- the people that actually live there hated BOTH the US and the (former) USSR. The locals accepted the help of the US to defeat the USSR during the 80's, then immediately turned on the US when the Russians left- their ultimate goal to expel BOTH sides from their land.
Just like in RL, most of the military fighting in contested regions don't actually live there- they come from Empire space. They arrive in death machines to blow things up, kill anyone not 'blue' to them, then leave and go home to the safety of high sec. Leaving the people native to the contested space living in a state of constant fear and deprivation, just wanting to farm their PI while seeing both sides of the ongoing war as 'the bad guy'.


One capsuleer's terrorist is another capsuleer's freedom fighterBig smile


Not true there are griefer in all areas of game. When I lived in HS before FW my alliance always had wardecs because some people think that killing highsec carebear that can't shoot back is fun. Then I came to lowsec with FW and it is just more sociopath and more blobbing. Also friendly militia shoot me with no consequence!?
Merely Runaway
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-10-09 21:31:23 UTC
Pinky Feldman wrote:

Not true there are griefer in all areas of game. When I lived in HS before FW my alliance always had wardecs because some people think that killing highsec carebear that can't shoot back is fun. Then I came to lowsec with FW and it is just more sociopath and more blobbing. Also friendly militia shoot me with no consequence!?

Maybe they just don't like you?
Grarr Dexx
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-10-10 15:37:35 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
The answer is -

Don't go to High sec.

Then you wont have to pass any camps to enter low sec.


I like the way you think.
Pinky Feldman
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-10-12 18:51:57 UTC
Merely Runaway wrote:
Pinky Feldman wrote:

Not true there are griefer in all areas of game. When I lived in HS before FW my alliance always had wardecs because some people think that killing highsec carebear that can't shoot back is fun. Then I came to lowsec with FW and it is just more sociopath and more blobbing. Also friendly militia shoot me with no consequence!?

Maybe they just don't like you?

I'm sorry.
Alaric Faelen
El Ultimo Hombre
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2013-10-13 16:29:44 UTC
Quote:
Not true there are griefer in all areas of game. When I lived in HS before FW my alliance always had wardecs because some people think that killing highsec carebear that can't shoot back is fun. Then I came to lowsec with FW and it is just more sociopath and more blobbing. Also friendly militia shoot me with no consequence!?


--Once again, that assessment is borne from logical fallacy. Assigning for other people their motivations and intentions, is a recipe for failure.

It's not any more valid than waving a hand over high sec and declaring them all cowards for not engaging in PvP. Such broad generalizations, coupled with the arrogance of defining for other people their own actions and motivations, is a method of stoking one's wounded ego by dehumanizing the supposed enemy. They didn't dec you because it's valid economic warfare to deny others resources or to take resources someone labored to retrieve.....nope, it's just because they're bad people (tm) and like to grief....
The latter seems a better salve for a victim's ego, but the only one they are convincing is themselves.

People throw around terms like sociopath because it's great hyperbole. How much more epic was a loss when it came at the hands of a mentally deranged person, rather than just another gamer nerd actually playing a game wholly within it's established rules?
All chess players must be virtual Hannibal Lecters in that case. .since the only goal in chess is the total destruction of the other side- often 'killing' a dozen enemy soldiers (and even clergy) on the path to beheading an enemy monarchy.
OR
It's just a competitive and social past time where no one actually gets hurt.....like EveLol

Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2013-10-14 02:34:40 UTC
Pinky Feldman wrote:
This is why I am not playing EVE right now because griever blow up my ship too much and don't want fights only ganks. You are totally right and the sad thing is that it is not much better even when you have lots of SP like me because WINMATAR. is pretty much unstoppable right now so why should I undock if they just blow up my ship everytime and have already won FW.


*snorts*

Around Avenod Amarr milittia is doing pretty good in kicking minmatar ass.
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-10-14 03:37:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Iudicium Vastus
Alaric Faelen wrote:


People throw around terms like sociopath because it's great hyperbole. How much more epic was a loss when it came at the hands of a mentally deranged person, rather than just another gamer nerd actually playing a game wholly within it's established rules?
All chess players must be virtual Hannibal Lecters in that case. .since the only goal in chess is the total destruction of the other side- often 'killing' a dozen enemy soldiers (and even clergy) on the path to beheading an enemy monarchy.
OR
It's just a competitive and social past time where no one actually gets hurt.....like EveLol



Bad analogy sweetheart. Chess (or any other sorts of boardgames) start of equal and symmetric footing. The pieces are provided for you without any effort or time investment on your part and always replaceable for next round at zero effort/time as well. The objective of Chess is only the domination of your single opponent with absolutely no other tasks or options to engage in at any time. Also, Chess is entirely voluntary as it is exceedingly difficult to force Chess on someone without questionable or outright illegal methods (unlawful imprisonment, blackmail, kidnapping, etc)

Try again.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)

Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#39 - 2013-10-14 04:35:19 UTC
If someone is blackmailing you into playing EVE, you should contact your local police department.

If you've been imprisoned or kidnapped and forced to play EVE, but your captors are allowing you forum access, you might see if CCP will pass on information relating to your whereabouts to the relevant authorities.
Zappity
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-10-14 04:58:24 UTC
Are you going to die a lot as a noob? Of course. Are you going to win more fights as your character gets stronger? Of course.

But every time you die you learn something. You can either chalk it up to experience and move on or you can whinge about it.

Personally, I'm glad that EVE is difficult and dangerous. If it was easy for a noob there wouldn't be any enduring challenge would there?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

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