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Meta 4 over T2

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Xeator
soldiers.fi
#1 - 2013-10-03 06:28:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Xeator
Why is it that certain meta 4 items are better than T2 counterparts.

Take for instance the target painter, meta 4 is superior to T2(less cpu usage & activation cost), while T2 needs way more skill to operate.

Whats the logic behind this?
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#2 - 2013-10-03 07:27:59 UTC
Welcome to Eve, mate. There was a time when Tech2 plates were garbage compared to Meta 4. I assume that's on CCP's to-do list, but count on them to be that way for a while.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Xeator
soldiers.fi
#3 - 2013-10-03 07:30:57 UTC
Still doesnt quite explain that why T2 needs more skill to operate than meta4. If T2 was previously worse, why the increased skill requirement?
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-10-03 07:46:19 UTC
While I know this isn't for every module out there, some modules (such as guns) have a "specialization" skill that needs to be trained once the general skill is V. This specialization skill increases said dps, effectiveness, range, or some other attribute by a certain amount (usually 2% or 5% or 10%). So when looking at a stock object without possessing the T2 skill it would look like the meta 4 version is similar but after training the specialization skill and you look at the attributes you will see that they are superior to meta 4.

Honor is a fools prize. [I]Glory is of no use to the dead.[/I]

Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#5 - 2013-10-03 07:55:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Xeator wrote:
Still doesnt quite explain that why T2 needs more skill to operate than meta4. If T2 was previously worse, why the increased skill requirement?


"Meta" refers to utility in the invention process. Its useful for figuring better, but not designed for that purpose.

T2 modules let alliances build and use that module type whether or not the "best named" drop in their region in sufficient numbers to equip whelpable fleets, but did not necessarily need to impart a combat advantage as well to fulfill their role.

Stats for most T2 and "best named" objects pre-dates the jumpfreighter by some years, which currently allows an alliance to extract all of highsecs supply of virtually anything if they need it. ie for each module you probably look at balancing decisions made when belt ratting was actually important still by people who probably don't work for CCP now.
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#6 - 2013-10-04 02:21:24 UTC
Prior to the Odyssey patch, if I remember correctly, many of the very good Meta 4 items, such as the PWNAGE Target Painter, were relatively rare, and fairly expensive.

With the removal of T1 loot, and the rebalancing of the loot tables, most of the Meta 4 items are common and inexpensive. CCP simply has not yet gotten around to balancing a lot of the effects of the Odyssey loot table shuffle/Meta item proliferation/capabilities/requirements with regards to some modules. The worst offenders (1600mm Armor Plates, among others) were fixed, but the rest are still as they were.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#7 - 2013-10-04 03:36:08 UTC
The whole idea of meta items sometimes being better and sometimes worse than T2 is that both missioners and builders have a niche in supplying equipment.

I'm no fan of mission bears at all, but at least now they are a useful source of some valuable modules. Meta 4 warp scrams, sensor disruptors and the like. Remove that and the bears will serve no purpose in the game at all.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#8 - 2013-10-04 06:00:04 UTC
Sadly there's no real logic to it at all. Some M4 items are straight up better than T2 in every way and vice versa. There are also inconsistencies in which kinds of items are better at M4 like disruptors and scrams, M4 scrams are straight up better than T2 (same range, less activation cost, less cpu use, can be heated longer) but M4 disruptors aren't (4km less range than T2) despite being in the same category. Ewar modules tend to be this way too (M4 > T2).

As said above previously this wasn't that big an issue because most M4 items were relatively low in supply compared to T2 so even if they were better they tended to be more expensive, but with M4 items flooding the market after loot rebalances, some M4 items completely negate the need to use T2 items as on top of being better, they are cheaper too.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-10-06 14:27:30 UTC
This again.....

meta's issue is its sellers give it away. As mentioned loot tables have changed over the years. With the exception of drones (no replacement for lost drone poop I have seen) this stuff drops more now. A long time ago I trained shield upgrade 5 to fit t2 SE's better as meta SE's were too expensive for my tastes. Now....not so much. Welcome to eve, market changes and all the fun that coms with it. Or as I always say I'd happily buy gravi jams for my scorpion/falcon if ever the day came bz-5's cost more. Till that day....I will just buy BZ-5 off the discount rack.

Skill rant....look at it like this, the skills for t2 make meta work better as well. Don't get wrapped up in it, run meta at t2 skill levels or higher and enjoy more fitting options. Once you lose t2 or death mindset eve a better place. Guns about the only thing t2 or death for me at this point barring the need to run a fleet spec fit.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#10 - 2013-10-07 12:25:21 UTC
Xeator wrote:
Why is it that certain meta 4 items are better than T2 counterparts.

Take for instance the target painter, meta 4 is superior to T2(less cpu usage & activation cost), while T2 needs way more skill to operate.

Whats the logic behind this?


WHY DON'T YOU READ ONE OF THE 500 OTHER THREADS ON BEATING THIS DEAD HORSE?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Iyokus Patrouette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-10-07 13:03:18 UTC
ooohhh all the capital letters. . . Malcanis seems mad Shocked

-skips off to go make a new thread about the same thing-

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-10-07 21:18:55 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Xeator wrote:
Why is it that certain meta 4 items are better than T2 counterparts.

Take for instance the target painter, meta 4 is superior to T2(less cpu usage & activation cost), while T2 needs way more skill to operate.

Whats the logic behind this?


WHY DON'T YOU READ ONE OF THE 500 OTHER THREADS ON BEATING THIS DEAD HORSE?


To harvest CSM tears obviously.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
Xeator
soldiers.fi
#13 - 2013-10-08 10:07:08 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Xeator wrote:
Why is it that certain meta 4 items are better than T2 counterparts.

Take for instance the target painter, meta 4 is superior to T2(less cpu usage & activation cost), while T2 needs way more skill to operate.

Whats the logic behind this?


WHY DON'T YOU READ ONE OF THE 500 OTHER THREADS ON BEATING THIS DEAD HORSE?


Search function is ****. Plus, if this has been beaten to death 500 times its probably worth bringing up once in a while so **** would actually get done regarding these issues :D

And to be totally frank, the bittervetting isnt very cool. Take into consideration that I am still rather new here.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#14 - 2013-10-08 11:35:36 UTC
Xeator wrote:
Search function is ****.

How so? A search for "meta 4 t2" provides at least three threads besides this one asking the same question, just on the first page of results.
Xeator
soldiers.fi
#15 - 2013-10-08 12:26:43 UTC
Zor'katar wrote:
Xeator wrote:
Search function is ****.

How so? A search for "meta 4 t2" provides at least three threads besides this one asking the same question, just on the first page of results.


I searched t2 meta4 and got something totally unrelated.
Ginger Barbarella
#16 - 2013-10-08 16:16:36 UTC
Xeator wrote:
Zor'katar wrote:
Xeator wrote:
Search function is ****.

How so? A search for "meta 4 t2" provides at least three threads besides this one asking the same question, just on the first page of results.


I searched t2 meta4 and got something totally unrelated.


lrn2google

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#17 - 2013-10-08 17:24:19 UTC