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CSM Statement on the SOMER Promotion (with reply from CCP Pokethulu)

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#261 - 2013-10-06 21:14:02 UTC
Xaen wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Well the good news is that not only was Navigator unjustifiably declaring a particular in-game, for profit group as legitimate and 100% trustworthy, and handing their in-game, for profit group unique items for them to use as part of their in-game, for profit business

he was also directly giving members of somer special gifts worth hundreds of billions as "thanks"

hahahahaha this is unfuckingbelievable

No wonder the CSM were kept out of the loop, this is the exact same t20 crap all over again

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

I'm done with this game.

CCP, CCP Navigator is making a bloody mess of your game. Where's internal affairs on this?

Where was the CSM?

Did you learn NOTHING from the t20 scandal?!?

The foolishness is ASTOUNDING.

Like, I seriously can't believe how quadruple, game-ruiningly stupid this whole thing has become.

JUST STOP SHOWING FAVORITISM.

STAHP!

Lol

Combo giveaway. Ships to lottery and ships into redeem system

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nev Markson
#262 - 2013-10-06 21:16:01 UTC
Montmazar wrote:
Dramaticus wrote:
CCP should have just cut out the middle man and give SOMER a gigantic pile of timecards to sell


Or cash. Because if anyone doesn't believe Somer will try to turn as much of his estimated 120 TRILLION isk (FunkyBacon estimate) as possible into real money, whether it's already happened or will in the future, lol. Just lol. When you can afford to buy 100 officer fit titans and 100 characters to fly those titans and still barely notice, there's only one reasonable thing left to do with that space money.

If CCP wants Eve Online to be a casino with a spaceship game attached to it, which seems to be the case, I am puzzled by why they don't just make it official and put Somer on the payroll. Make it honest.


The interesting fact in this is, that that'd means all SOMER related chars and account to break with the terms of service and therfore with CCP being forced to ban them (equality and stuff in front of legal courts etc.).

I don't see, why CCP should have any reasonable and legit reasons not to explain this in public, before giving out any stuff or making any promises (something fishy in the air).

From what i experienced with several MMOs so far is, that any kind of favoritism or changing mechanics in an extreme favor of sbd. destroys the game and eventually cripple it and its player base. But while most of the publishers have 4 to 5 money cows at a time CCP has only one, which it better not screw over by **** like this!

I have no Problem with CCP rewarding community sides, but it has to be in a transparent fair and most important of all symbolic way, not with assets worth a aproximately a trillion! isk, like having a special item for your character or so, which you cant sell.

Why not creating something like a Prize for the best community page/tool of the year 2013 and 14 and so on?
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#263 - 2013-10-07 15:13:22 UTC
The CSM was created to destroy favoritism yet here we are the promotion is still ongoing and now they have recieved to what would be considered a gift of 30 crap ships they can put on the market and turn into isk/IRL cash through their RMT operation called SOMERBLINK. Way to go CSM anyone else you want to claim to represent other than the EVE player base?

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#264 - 2013-10-07 16:04:23 UTC
So is it time for a new csm statement "It's fine, you're kids, shut up" ?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#265 - 2013-10-07 17:05:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Alavaria Fera wrote:

basically sit down and shut up its all taken care of

nothing to see here

play somer blink more



I just don't think there's much to fuss about, explanations are given by CCP staff, some don't care (like me) others seem to take this too seriously, which is also my opinion.

Let's wait and see if all GSF members/allies get an exclusive item to reward them for all the content they provide for years now Lol
You guys would just field them all in one fleet and gank the crap out of everyone in your way while exploding in a famous and glorious fun, I'll be there if this happens and if I get the time to Lol

I can agree on the part "not the good way to do the thing" but I can't agree on how many players keep rabbling the same stuff endlessly in different threads when there's already a sticky one where everyone and his grand mother can share his opinions.
Now this is becoming more boring than the ships giveaway or whatever the heck.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#266 - 2013-10-07 21:10:15 UTC
20,000 ishkone watch ibis

nope

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
None ofthe Above
#267 - 2013-10-07 21:44:16 UTC
I do see a few places where this all could have been handled better, so understand why players can rightly be upset.

I didn't like the idea of reviving ships that were promised to be never be produced again, but that was fixed. (Lore wise, I have no problem with the NPCs changing their mind and making ships that were formerly unavailable or limited runs. But I feel CCP should keep it's promises.)

Key thing that is getting lost in the scuffle:

To my mind I think it's a good thing that CCP has realized that one of it's greatest assets in EVE is it's playerbase. I like that they are doing things to support that. The community focuses, the supported fansites. Sponsored and attended RL events.

SOMER has a track record of sponsoring EVE related events. CCP has worked with them before. It's only natural that they continued to grow that relationship. Perhaps they went a little too far this last time, and I appreciate their corrections of pulling back a bit with prizes.

The community is letting CCP know that a line has been crossed, in their view. That's all fine, but let us not cripple their ability to sponsor future events and enter into co-marketing arrangements with player groups. I see this as critical to the ongoing success of EVE.

So let us give some thought to how this could be handled in a more reasonable fashion. And how we can help make EVE last into the THIRD decade, shall we?

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Maximilian Akora
It's just business.
#268 - 2013-10-07 23:41:46 UTC
As long as there's people in CCP who make decisions like these we'll (have to) continue to rage, rally and threadnaught.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#269 - 2013-10-08 11:41:20 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
So let us give some thought to how this could be handled in a more reasonable fashion. And how we can help make EVE last into the THIRD decade, shall we?


Some idea's both of mine and others:

- Instead of handing out ingame items that can (for a while) have an extraordinary in game value, give out tickets or points for free fanfest tickets. With enough points you have a free ticket to fanfest.

Good side is that you don't give out in game items that are worth tons of isk for collectors at the start of the hand out, and worth considerable less when the last ones receive the thank you (for the fish in this case).
Bad side: costs CCP real money and needs to be tightly organized.

- Instead of giving (temporarily) valuable items, raise a big ingame statue for those with remarkable deeds done to the EVE community and print their names on it accompanied with wiki related stuff.

Good side, I doubt that anybody (cough, I forget where I amBlink) can get upset about someone's name being put on an in game statue that lasts as long as EVE lasts. Unless the character makes a 'mittani' of course.
Bad side again it needs to be tightly organized by CCP and we all know it can take month's for CCP to act upon promises that where made in the past like a recently promised(cough) 10 year(cough) vets station (cough cough).

- Or devalue the 'gift' before release by stating how many excactly you're going to hand out, still risks favoritism and all the other stuff that got people up in flames now, at least it contains it somewhat

And yes of course, never, ever, ever hand out gifts like a thief in the night again. Transparency you know? Being open about what you, when you do and why (by what criteria) you do hand out gifts.

And I'm sure others can come up with plenty more suggestions.



Now I'm off taking care of that terrible cough.
Jamison
Southern Gothic
#270 - 2013-10-08 14:51:51 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
The following is a summary of CSM activity over the last few days regarding the SOMER Blink promotion.

The CSM was not consulted in advance about this promotion, so it was just as much a surprise to us as it was to the community. Our reaction was broadly similar to that expressed in the forums.

On Thursday the 26th, we received an update on the situation from CCP Dolan after our regular Stakeholder meeting with Team Five-0. Later in the day, we got a second update from CCP Dolan and CCP Manifest.

During those meetings, we outlined five areas of concern that we felt CCP's response should address. These were:

1. Reintroduction of historically important or unique ships.

2. Favoring one community fan site over others.

3. Trusting a community fan site, and more particularly, a player, with the task of selecting the winners.

4. Forcing players to use SOMER Blink in order to enter -- which may have legal consequences in some jurisdictions.

5. Providing direct benefit to a for-profit gambling fansite.

CCP Navigator's announcement on Thursday of changes to the prize structure has addressed (1), and details of the method of selecting winners (which we urge CCP to make public) leaves the CSM reasonably confident that the actual drawing will be fair, addressing issue (3).

Issues (2) and (5) are business decisions that CCP has the right to make. We think they are a mistake, and hope that the uproar over this issue will cause CCP to re-evaluate these policies for future promotions. Supporting groups that have a clear educational/public service focus in-game is one thing; supporting a group that is distinctly for-profit -- and one that can use the ISK it generates to secretly support in-game groups -- breeds distrust for CCP in the community.

However, the requirement that one must be a member of SOMER Blink in order to participate remains, and for a lottery with such significant prizes, is very troubling to us. Furthermore, the structure of the lottery, which encourages and rewards extensive use of SOMER Blink, may raise legal concerns in some jurisdictions. For example, in the United States, commercial lotteries cannot require the purchase of a product or service in order to receive an entry.

For this reason, we strongly suggest that the entry mechanic be adjusted as follows:

1) Members of SOMER Blink are automatically entered into the lottery and receive one ticket, regardless of how much they use the site.

2) An alternate method (such as posting in a particular thread) be used to allow people to enter who do not wish to become a member of SOMER Blink.

We further recommend that procedures be put in place to sanity-check future promotions to ensure that they are acceptable to the community.

On Friday morning we sent this statement to CCP for their comments, and on Friday evening David Reid (CCP Pokethulu, CCP's CMO) replied to us as follows (reproduced with permission):

Quote:
Thank you for your thoughtful feedback, and for the opportunity to review your statement in advance of publishing it to the community.

We acknowledge that we rushed this event, and we are certainly learning from it now.

Your statement strikes us as factually correct and appropriate to publish, and there are a few further details we want to share with you also.

First, we are developing a program to allow all 3rd parties the opportunity to apply to participate in these kinds of events and promotions with CCP support, and we will have news on that shortly. In general, we believe CCP should foster the activities our players enjoy, and it is clear these kinds of activities have a lot of support in the EVE community, much like we see in other games.

That said, we recognize it is imperative for CCP to remain impartial with respect to which 3rd parties receive CCP support for these kinds of activities. To that end, we will develop a clear policy on how we plan to conduct future events, including how we will determine which 3rd parties and which events will receive CCP support, and we will develop that policy in consultation with the CSM.

We also want to assure you that we are working closely with CCP's legal team to ensure all legal concerns resulting from this event, and future events like it, are addressed.

If you wish, it's fine to let the community know in your statement that CCP has informed you we are working on a clear 3rd party program for future events and that we will consult with you on this program as we develop it, but there's certainly no requirement for you to include this in your statement.

Thank you again for your feedback here and we welcome your further thoughts.

Thanks,
David

The CSM will endeavor to keep the community informed as there are further developments in this issue, and as always, your input is most appreciated.

Sincerely,
The Members of the 8th Council of Stellar Management

Stickied on request of CSM. ISD Ezwal.



Thank you Trebor for the update. Also I want to thank the CSM for their work on this issue, hopefully we will see more transparency in the future.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#271 - 2013-10-08 15:24:43 UTC
LOL at Eterne closing a thread about a CCP dev giving direct, secret gifts to individual players and referring us to this thread, which was a separate issue (granted both involved somer blink) entirely

good job, mate. Real smooth cover up
Kate stark
#272 - 2013-10-08 15:27:27 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
LOL at Eterne closing a thread about a CCP dev giving direct, secret gifts to individual players and referring us to this thread, which was a separate issue (granted both involved somer blink) entirely

good job, mate. Real smooth cover up


funnily enough, i just posted pretty much the same thing in the other thread.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#273 - 2013-10-08 15:28:19 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
LOL at Eterne closing a thread about a CCP dev giving direct, secret gifts to individual players and referring us to this thread, which was a separate issue (granted both involved somer blink) entirely

good job, mate. Real smooth cover up

it's almost like they keep doing the wrong thing...
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#274 - 2013-10-08 15:58:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
LOL at Eterne closing a thread about a CCP dev giving direct, secret gifts to individual players and referring us to this thread, which was a separate issue (granted both involved somer blink) entirely

good job, mate. Real smooth cover up



Just typical CCP "anti-threadnaught" damage control. Let a thread get to a certain size, and then lock it, directing players to one or more threads that will also be locked for :reasons:.

It's pretty obvious they really don't intend to discuss this matter, and they won't be reversing or changing direction, because screw you, that's why.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Prince Kobol
#275 - 2013-10-08 16:48:49 UTC
I actually agree with the thread being closed as the subject had long been abandon and the thread had become nothing more then a few people sniping, flaming and trolling each other which is unfortunate.

If you do not want to get threads locked then simply do not respond to people who are clearly trolling / flaming as if they get no response they will quickly get bored and move on elsewhere.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#276 - 2013-10-08 17:42:12 UTC
Shame on you CCP.

The Tears Must Flow
Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#277 - 2013-10-08 17:52:22 UTC
CCP, please fix things and please give a response to our concerns about SomerGate, soon, please.
Milly Merner
Doomheim
#278 - 2013-10-08 19:03:57 UTC
Yes, I will keep subbing my 5 accounts.

But, I was going to buy the Collector's Edition.

Now I'm not.
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#279 - 2013-10-08 20:48:33 UTC
Subscription cancelled.
Memnon Shepard
The Occupation.
#280 - 2013-10-08 21:24:33 UTC
Posting here if only to say I'm still paying attention to this issue. I laughed when the only thing CCP could be bothered to do on the previous thread, after over 74 pages of customers expressing disapproval of their actions and requesting an official comment, was to shut the thread down and refer everyone to pages started as a result of completely separate topics.