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3 Years Later and still no fix for the Margin Trading Scam..
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Loki Nekema
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1 - 2013-10-05 17:17:44 UTC
So I have been away from Eve for a while and I got burned on a Margin Trading Scam. The amount was insignificant, but it truly angers me that players are able to exploit this game in a way that looks perfectly legitimate. I did not know how margin trading worked until I got burned by this scam. Is there really no end in sight to this scam? We are just supposed to accept that it's part of the game? If there is a buy order in place and I fill that buy order by purchasing items from the market.. That buy order shouldn't just cancel out. Is this not something that CCP is going to change? I mean after 3 years of people getting scammed with no real way of knowing they are being scammed, until it happens to them or they learn about it through some other means, it still continues to happen. It is quite frankly unfair that I should be punished for what looks to be a completely legitimate buy order. Only to find out the person who placed the buy order, is the same person selling the items needed to fill that order. Obviously this won't happen to me again, but is anything going to be done about this? If the person doesn't have the funds to fill the buy order, that information should be available to everyone.

Such a shame that CCP let's things like this happen and for over 3 years now with no end in sight. You've lost another paying customer CCP.
Tigerras
Smash Incorporated
#2 - 2013-10-05 17:37:53 UTC
It is not an exploit. Every part of that system works as intended
Wafflehead
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-10-05 18:17:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Wafflehead
The scam works based on the stupidity of the player.

Nothing wrong with the skill at all, works exactly as intended.

Most of these 'scams' involve a stupidly high buy order in relation to the sell order... and always guaranteed it is an item that is hardly ever traded.

Price History is a traders best friend.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#4 - 2013-10-05 19:00:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
3 years later and people still fall for Margin Trading scams Straight.

Quote:
it truly angers me that players are able to exploit this game in a way that looks perfectly legitimate.


Hmm, this item has very rarely been selling for 3 million ISK for the past year, someone is now offering to sell them to me for 500m, while someone else is offering to buy them for 3b, sounds legit huh? Like other games you simply need to understand the rules.

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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#5 - 2013-10-06 00:15:11 UTC
What's broken that needs fixing?

The guy didn't have enough money to pay for your goods, so he didn't get your goods. Seems like it's working just right.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Rengerel en Distel
#6 - 2013-10-06 00:49:40 UTC
When you're throwing a tantrum saying you're quitting, you're supposed to say you're cancelling 10+ accounts ... who really cares if one guy dumb enough to fall for a margin trade scam quits?

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Tigerras
Smash Incorporated
#7 - 2013-10-06 01:10:26 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
When you're throwing a tantrum saying you're quitting, you're supposed to say you're cancelling 10+ accounts ... who really cares if one guy dumb enough to fall for a margin trade scam quits?



I imagine the margin scammers might be a little upset, a source of income is leaving.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#8 - 2013-10-06 05:45:21 UTC
Loki Nekema wrote:
It is quite frankly unfair that I should be punished
You were greedy, you were foolish and you got scammed as a result of it.

This is not only the way it works in EVE, it's also the way the combination of greed and stupidity works in real life. Blaming the system for your own failings gets you nowhere.

Tigerras wrote:
I imagine the margin scammers might be a little upset, a source of income is leaving.
I doubt it, that market is chronically oversupplied.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#9 - 2013-10-06 06:04:30 UTC
Tigerras wrote:
I imagine the margin scammers might be a little upset, a source of income is leaving.


I'm curious how many repeat customers they actually get.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#10 - 2013-10-06 06:08:43 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Tigerras wrote:
I imagine the margin scammers might be a little upset, a source of income is leaving.


I'm curious how many repeat customers they actually get.
Three stamps on your loyalty card and you get a limited edition small black Charon at a special price.
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#11 - 2013-10-06 09:07:28 UTC
The person placing the buy order (who is the usually the same person you purchased from) does not need to wait for you to attempt to fill their order, they can just pull their order when you buy from them with the same result.

You can also get stuck with lots of overpriced goods if you are rushing from one system to another and the order gets filled while you are flying.

What would the OP suggest CCP implements in order to make sure that neither of these things happen as well?

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flakeys
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-10-06 11:23:05 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
What would the OP suggest CCP implements in order to make sure that neither of these things happen as well?



He would use a victims logic to remove the skill margin trade as a whole because thousands of players that do use it for normal trade does not outweigh the handfull of idiots who fell for the margin scam.

I support this and would like the removal of contracts too because of the possibility someone can get scammed through it.Also i would like the removal of market orders in general because some people buy way overpriced badgers at times and that usually is refered to as scamming by the victiims.
I would like to suggest the removal of any form of trade , including the station trade system , and the exchange of isk in any form between 2 players this way no one can become a victim.Offcourse with the ''firm'' rules of CCP i would also like it to be impossible to exchange isk between alt characters.


With all these new rules eve will become the awsomeness it should be .Let's all help build a better place , a better world , a better EVE for everyone.



We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
SilverTabby Catus
Black Cat Logistics
#13 - 2013-10-06 19:04:59 UTC
Simple solution to margin trading scam: make it so that you can see who posted a market order without filling it. You can use this to acquire the item elsewhere, donate the money needed to cover the buy to the guy who posted it, and immediately clean him out.


Simpler solution to the margin trading scam: don't fall for it.
Rengerel en Distel
#14 - 2013-10-06 20:54:14 UTC
SilverTabby Catus wrote:
Simple solution to margin trading scam: make it so that you can see who posted a market order without filling it. You can use this to acquire the item elsewhere, donate the money needed to cover the buy to the guy who posted it, and immediately clean him out.


Nod, give him the money to cover the items you're selling to him, so he's still not losing anything, while also hoping that he runs the scam from his main wallet, and not a different one. Brilliant.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Claire Voyant
#15 - 2013-10-06 22:29:25 UTC
Threads like these just go to show that the only reason people fall for margin scams is because they are stupid.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#16 - 2013-10-07 00:01:17 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Rhivre wrote:
What would the OP suggest CCP implements in order to make sure that neither of these things happen as well?



He would use a victims logic to remove the skill margin trade as a whole because thousands of players that do use it for normal trade does not outweigh the handfull of idiots who fell for the margin scam.

I support this and would like the removal of contracts too because of the possibility someone can get scammed through it.Also i would like the removal of market orders in general because some people buy way overpriced badgers at times and that usually is refered to as scamming by the victiims.
I would like to suggest the removal of any form of trade , including the station trade system , and the exchange of isk in any form between 2 players this way no one can become a victim.Offcourse with the ''firm'' rules of CCP i would also like it to be impossible to exchange isk between alt characters.


With all these new rules eve will become the awsomeness it should be .Let's all help build a better place , a better world , a better EVE for everyone.





Can we also remove the ability to undock, so that pirates can't scam you out of your ship?

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Signal11th
#17 - 2013-10-07 09:30:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Loki Nekema wrote:
So I have been away from Eve for a while and I got burned on a Margin Trading Scam. The amount was insignificant, but it truly angers me that players are able to exploit this game in a way that looks perfectly legitimate. I did not know how margin trading worked until I got burned by this scam. Is there really no end in sight to this scam? We are just supposed to accept that it's part of the game? If there is a buy order in place and I fill that buy order by purchasing items from the market.. That buy order shouldn't just cancel out. Is this not something that CCP is going to change? I mean after 3 years of people getting scammed with no real way of knowing they are being scammed, until it happens to them or they learn about it through some other means, it still continues to happen. It is quite frankly unfair that I should be punished for what looks to be a completely legitimate buy order. Only to find out the person who placed the buy order, is the same person selling the items needed to fill that order. Obviously this won't happen to me again, but is anything going to be done about this? If the person doesn't have the funds to fill the buy order, that information should be available to everyone.

Such a shame that CCP let's things like this happen and for over 3 years now with no end in sight. You've lost another paying customer CCP.



There is a fix it's called using your brain and not being greedy and foolish.

Although you should be able to find out who is buying and who is selling just like in RL.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Velicitia
XS Tech
#18 - 2013-10-07 12:54:23 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Tigerras wrote:
I imagine the margin scammers might be a little upset, a source of income is leaving.


I'm curious how many repeat customers they actually get.
Three stamps on your loyalty card and you get a limited edition small black Charon at a special price.


Fixed Cool

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Tyrton
Imbecile MIiss Managment and Disasters
Intergalactic Interstellar Interns
#19 - 2013-10-07 14:07:34 UTC
I will point out the obvious...


Do NOT click on the copy pasta "LOOK I FOUND A FAIL BUY ORDER LOL WISH I HAD THE MONEY"