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[Rubicon] Interceptors

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Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#221 - 2013-10-04 18:46:52 UTC
Ares split weapon bonuses... two thumbs up!

Now, can you please go back and fix some of the other ships which had their split bonuses recently removed?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#222 - 2013-10-04 19:04:08 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Ares split weapon bonuses... two thumbs up!

Now, can you please go back and fix some of the other ships which had their split bonuses recently removed?



They are trying the same bonus that was used in the fleet scythe. split DOUBLED bonuses.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#223 - 2013-10-04 19:52:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:
I'm a little dubious on some of these changes - mostly because other ships can still do things better. For example, the Taranis. That's apparently completely okay, with a slight EHP reduction even. However, what does the Taranis do that the Comet doesn't do better other than the bubble immunity?

Fleet interceptors seem quite well off apart from all interceptors in general needing more lock range. But this is a pattern repeated throughout with the combat interceptors - why use them over something else? The Raptor, as another example, also remains terrible. Partially, as noted, because the shield resist bonus is wasted on a ship that can't really afford to put on shield extenders without gimping itself.



With regard to your Raptor assumption. A "36(+10)" change to the Raptors powergrid would be significant. Provided you fit one medium shield extender and damage control. The Raptor would be capable of having around 7,500 effective hitpoints and apply at least 200 damage per second.

That's not nothing...

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Incorruptibles
#224 - 2013-10-04 21:12:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkenai Wyrnspire
Major Killz wrote:
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:
I'm a little dubious on some of these changes - mostly because other ships can still do things better. For example, the Taranis. That's apparently completely okay, with a slight EHP reduction even. However, what does the Taranis do that the Comet doesn't do better other than the bubble immunity?

Fleet interceptors seem quite well off apart from all interceptors in general needing more lock range. But this is a pattern repeated throughout with the combat interceptors - why use them over something else? The Raptor, as another example, also remains terrible. Partially, as noted, because the shield resist bonus is wasted on a ship that can't really afford to put on shield extenders without gimping itself.



With regard to your Raptor assumption. A "36(+10)" change to the Raptors powergrid would be significant. Provided you fit one medium shield extender and damage control. The Raptor would be capable of having around 7,500 effective hitpoints and apply at least 200 damage per second.

That's not nothing...


I suggest you try putting an MSE on, say, a Comet and seeing what results you get from a similar fit. Your range control from having an MSE with only three midslots is pretty bad if you're using blasters though.

Someone.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#225 - 2013-10-04 21:17:01 UTC
I assume the 9 AU warp speed of the crow and the 14 AU warp speed of the raptor are being swapped?
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#226 - 2013-10-04 21:17:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:
Major Killz wrote:
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:
I'm a little dubious on some of these changes - mostly because other ships can still do things better. For example, the Taranis. That's apparently completely okay, with a slight EHP reduction even. However, what does the Taranis do that the Comet doesn't do better other than the bubble immunity?

Fleet interceptors seem quite well off apart from all interceptors in general needing more lock range. But this is a pattern repeated throughout with the combat interceptors - why use them over something else? The Raptor, as another example, also remains terrible. Partially, as noted, because the shield resist bonus is wasted on a ship that can't really afford to put on shield extenders without gimping itself.



With regard to your Raptor assumption. A "36(+10)" change to the Raptors powergrid would be significant. Provided you fit one medium shield extender and damage control. The Raptor would be capable of having around 7,500 effective hitpoints and apply at least 200 damage per second.

That's not nothing...


I suggest you try putting an MSE on, say, a Comet and seeing what results you get from a similar fit. Your range control from having an MSE with only three midslots is pretty bad if you're using blasters though.


Funny you say that. That's actually my police fleets were set up as. 2 - 4 shield-Comets exploding things on a regular basis was hella fun. We stopped rocking them after awhile though. It got boring... Started rocking Rail-harpies instead and we also took out that rail-raptor fleet.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Incorruptibles
#227 - 2013-10-04 21:37:32 UTC
Major Killz wrote:
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:
Major Killz wrote:
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:
I'm a little dubious on some of these changes - mostly because other ships can still do things better. For example, the Taranis. That's apparently completely okay, with a slight EHP reduction even. However, what does the Taranis do that the Comet doesn't do better other than the bubble immunity?

Fleet interceptors seem quite well off apart from all interceptors in general needing more lock range. But this is a pattern repeated throughout with the combat interceptors - why use them over something else? The Raptor, as another example, also remains terrible. Partially, as noted, because the shield resist bonus is wasted on a ship that can't really afford to put on shield extenders without gimping itself.



With regard to your Raptor assumption. A "36(+10)" change to the Raptors powergrid would be significant. Provided you fit one medium shield extender and damage control. The Raptor would be capable of having around 7,500 effective hitpoints and apply at least 200 damage per second.

That's not nothing...


I suggest you try putting an MSE on, say, a Comet and seeing what results you get from a similar fit. Your range control from having an MSE with only three midslots is pretty bad if you're using blasters though.


Funny you say that. That's actually my police fleets were set up as. 2 - 4 shield-Comets exploding things on a regular basis was hella fun. We stopped rocking them after awhile though. It got boring... Started rocking Rail-harpies instead and we also took out that rail-raptor fleet.


They're pretty fun in fleets, yeah Big smile
But what does a Raptor bring that a shield Comet doesn't? The range bonus? I suspect there are better ships for railgunning as well.

Someone.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#228 - 2013-10-04 21:51:23 UTC
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:
[quote=Major Killz][quote=Arkenai Wyrnspire][quote=Major Killz][quote=Arkenai Wyrnspire]I'
They're pretty fun in fleets, yeah Big smile
But what does a Raptor bring that a shield Comet doesn't? The range bonus? I suspect there are better ships for railgunning as well.


With changes? High velocity and effective hit-points I assume. Oh! That immunity to warp disruption bubbles i suppose.


What I may do is roll with 2 close range versions (blasters) and 3 long range versions (railguns). Gives more dimension to what a FLEET could engage effectively. Could also throw rail-Raptors into FLEETs of light missile-Crows.

Anyway.

This game is boring right now. Doing the same things and adding green to your killboards gets old quick. New concepts keep older players interested, at least for awhile. It's the only thing CCP can do to maintain what they have. Add new ships and hope players come up with more concepts to keep people interested.

However it's not happening fast enough. So, I hope things like this will help. Eve-Online is stagnant and there's only one directions from here (down). Unless some serious changes in mechanics and the way this game is played I doubt Eve-online will be here in the next 5 years.

SO! Being different and just something NEW is enough. Apart from other usefulness compared to something else. As long as that something can provide ANY USE it's good for this game and interest me at this point.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Cselle
Perkone
Caldari State
#229 - 2013-10-05 01:28:49 UTC
meh, just give them NO lockrange. Instead give them bonuses to large smartbomb fitting and use, instead of FoF missiles make FoF webs & points. So they have to fly at 5km/s and ram enemy ships to hit them. BETTER YET! make them bombers! They dont need to cloak if they have speed. I can just imagine swarms of interceptors kiting enemy fleets with bomb launchers.

I may have started this off sarcastically, but halfway through decided this is an AWESOME IDEA!
Sleepy Buddha
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#230 - 2013-10-05 05:29:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Sleepy Buddha
taranis got smashed .... should have rep bonus... btw res looks better now. :(

I mean it got smashed in its class (as others got some buff) ... and i still see faction frigs to be probably more dangerous in 1v1 fight ... but we will see ... fitting still looks like the most tricky part on this little buggers :(
Sleepy Buddha
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2013-10-05 05:34:57 UTC
and the sig radius bonus/signature is wrong ... till u reach intie lvl 5 most of the AFs have better sig mwding by their role bonus. This should be fixed too. Sad
Sleepy Buddha
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#232 - 2013-10-05 05:49:06 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Now the following will probably sound slightly hostile at times. Sorry about that, at least i liked the warp changes?

I hate just about everything here.. I don't even know where to begin.

Crusader has 2 midlots ergo it is **** no matter what else it does. Its like a ****** slicer with no range (And i'm pretty sure that even with the tracking bonus it still doesn't track as well as blasters.. and does less damage.. Why is scorch still the only thing lasers are good for?)

Maledictionnot absolutely awful but fittings are still a lot too tight if you want to actually fit a tank on it. There is a difference between meaningful fitting choices and needing to gimp the damn thing.

Raptor, 3 mids and shield tanking.. So either i don't fit a web.. Or i don't fit a tank? Great, that basically means that this will be a kiter 100% of the time. Well that is if you ignore the fact that ALL lml ships are better at kiting than this.

Crow Well i'm glad to see you're finally accepting that utility high slots are the worst slots.

Taranis fittings are still pretty awful.. I don't really see a point in the slight HP nerf seeing how its hardly overpowered as it is.

AresWhat the flying ****? like, i don't even know what to say... Why? like.. i don't even know... lml Ares... i hate this idea ALMOST as much as i hated t2 res marauders... Just.. Don't do this, its awful.. Also 30 powergrid.. I have a saved fit that has 0.5pg left over without any guns and a ******* festival launcher.. Just.. What the ****?

Claw Ok are you just ******* with me now? The claw.. a ship that gets bonuses to AC's.. has 45 PWG? So.. The Ares.. that uses blasters... where the smallest ones use 4 pg.. has 30.. But this.. that can use AC's that require 1 god damn powergrid has 45? No, this is not ok. You can't just give AC fitted minmatar INFINTE fittings so that they can use artillery.. Decrease the ******* stupid fitting gap between Arties and AC's so that a ship can fit Arties without having ALL the fittings with AC's

A Claw with a full rack of 200's will have 40 pg left over... meaning that with minor fitting implants you could fit a full rack of AC's.. and a 400mm plate.. Yes having only 2 midslots is terrible but unlike the Crusader this will actually have GOOD tracking.

(for those who are interested a Taranis with a full rack of neutrons has around 19.5 pg left over.. less than 50% of what the Claw will have.. And the Ares has even LESS.. I have no words.. really..)

Stiletto4 mids, still probably the best of the bunch when it comes to the general role of being an interceptor and it even has sensible fittings. I have no real problems with this one.

little bit overemmo, but my honorable colleague summarized all that was made. :)
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#233 - 2013-10-05 08:07:01 UTC
Exchange raptor and crow sensor strengths.
Tackler ceptors have the higher ss over combat ceptors.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#234 - 2013-10-05 08:16:25 UTC
Oh and dont give in to the whiners, who wants more lock range.
They can fit modules/rigs. That should be enough.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#235 - 2013-10-05 12:25:35 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Oh and dont give in to the whiners, who wants more lock range.
They can fit modules/rigs. That should be enough.

Speaking of which, assuming that rigs will be polished at some point in conjunction with tiericide, wouldn't it be prudent to let small rigs deviate from M/L/XL to take into account the generally much smaller numbers involved?

Example: The FW sensor implant sets are awesome, but you shoot yourself in the foot by going HG when flying small stuff as the flat bonus often is better than the % bonus, especially when taking slot/fitting allowance into account.

Same could be done with small rigs where applicable. Interceptors for instance does not gain nearly as much from a +25% lock range rig as a cruiser up ship would whereas they would benefit greatly if it gave them a flat +km number, say 10-15km.
All the percentage based rigs are identical to the bigger version and thus utterly pointless to even consider on small hulls with lower numbers.

PS: Same concept could be used for larger rigs to provide meaningful boosts where none currently exist like scan resolution on BS/Capitals where a % is a drop in the proverbial bucket thus artificially forcing people to always go for cookie-cutter options (mainly raw EHP).
PPS: Medium rigs to stay as is more or less, cruiser classes are damn near perfect to use as baseline for all others with its tons of fairly well balance options.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#236 - 2013-10-05 14:30:08 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Ares split weapon bonuses... two thumbs up!

Now, can you please go back and fix some of the other ships which had their split bonuses recently removed?


It only has 3 highs, not 4. It also can't actually fit anything at all. Also, the 'new' split weapons ships may as well all just have one weapon system - fitting both is always a terrible idea on them.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#237 - 2013-10-05 15:56:14 UTC
You dont think bubble immunity will make ceptors extremely OP? I mean they got the speed to get out of the bubbles anyway so it's not like they slow them down much.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#238 - 2013-10-05 15:58:56 UTC
Fozzie, just to throw another idea out there.... since your buffing the range of EAF ships (specificly the point range up to 20% per level) ;D why not give the fleet interceptors 10% per level instead of 5%? (+ more lock range)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#239 - 2013-10-05 16:04:28 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
You dont think bubble immunity will make ceptors extremely OP? I mean they got the speed to get out of the bubbles anyway so it's not like they slow them down much.


No more OP than covops ships.
Teth Razor
Chicks on Speed
#240 - 2013-10-05 16:47:12 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
You dont think bubble immunity will make ceptors extremely OP? I mean they got the speed to get out of the bubbles anyway so it's not like they slow them down much.
No more OP than covops ships.


That statement is completely wrong.

What makes covops not op is the fact that you can still bubble them and try for the decloak, or if a covops is not smart he will warp strait gate to gate and hit drag bubbles.

When I bubble camp I catch more covops and bombers then any other ship.

Nullified intys on the other hand can jump in to a system and instantly warp out of a bubble on the gate. On top of that the pilot will not even have to think about the out gate being safe. Nullified intys create and reward dumber pilots. We already have nullified T3s, we DO NOT NEED NULLIFED INTYS.