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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#981 - 2013-10-04 22:46:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Above all, people in this thread love to talk out of their ass without backing up any of their assertion with anything daring to look like an argument.

But in real EVE, the Stratios is a worse Navy Vexor with a cloak and T3 cruisers can already do more than anything a Stratios can do.

But I'm really eager to see those swarm of Ogre drones suddenly becoming a weapon of devastation, and I wonder why BS don't fill their drone bay with these already.


Unless the stats in the modified EFT I'm using are wrong (and I'm not talking about damage application in EFT) its pretty trivial to get a close range cloaky hunter out of this that can sport a 80+K EHP tank, decent speed, decent locktime and the ability to do around 665dps on paper and about 600dps applied effectively on a t1 armor tanked cruiser hull. Which I think is fairly credible and with a little more ISK thrown at it something fairly scary.

EDIT: My fits have only 3 turrets as I'd always fit cloak + probes for my use.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#982 - 2013-10-04 22:49:06 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
This thing is not overpowered. Very few people will realistically fly the 16k EHP glass cannon fit. The few who do will learn the problem with it quickly. I love how people ignore the lock time delay and the lack of damage application to anything below Battleship-class ships.

The reason it is considered OP right now is it is to good of a hunter ship


That's really the point of this. To be good at hunting down and killing stuff.

And I'm pretty sure - at least, I hope CCP ignores the idiots throwing around Ogre DPS numbers saying :it gets 800 DPS" when in reality probably only half of that is effective DPS. And even that's with a glass cannon fit.

But right now it is to good, it tramples over all other hunter class ships.


How is it too good? Mind pointing out? All I've seen is 16k EHP fits that do 400 DPS (800, but when you use Hammerheads because you realize the Ogres are useless, it goes to 400). It's a very balanced ship. Before throwing fits out of EFT that no one will use, why don't you try fitting one yourself, consider the lack of optimal or tracking bonus on both drones and turrets, and consider the lock time delay.

You'll quickly find that you are wrong.

[Stratios] Requires a 3% CPU Implant

Covert Ops Cloaking Device
4x Heavy Neutron Blaster II (Void M)

2x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I

800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
2x Drone Damage Amplifier II

3x Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

5x Ogre II

Effective HP: 35,211 (Eve: 27,089)
Tank Ability: 8.97 DPS
Shield Resists - EM: 0.00%, Ex: 50.00%, Ki: 40.00%, Th: 20.00%
Armor Resists - EM: 76.52%, Ex: 57.73%, Ki: 69.47%, Th: 69.47%

Capacitor (Lasts 1m 50s)

Volley Damage: 3,664.45
DPS: 928.61

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#983 - 2013-10-04 22:52:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

[Stratios] Requires a 3% CPU Implant

Covert Ops Cloaking Device
4x Heavy Neutron Blaster II (Void M)

2x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I

800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
2x Drone Damage Amplifier II

3x Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

5x Ogre II

Effective HP: 35,211 (Eve: 27,089)
Tank Ability: 8.97 DPS
Shield Resists - EM: 0.00%, Ex: 50.00%, Ki: 40.00%, Th: 20.00%
Armor Resists - EM: 76.52%, Ex: 57.73%, Ki: 69.47%, Th: 69.47%

Capacitor (Lasts 1m 50s)

Volley Damage: 3,664.45
DPS: 928.61


Think a bit more outside the box and throw some more implants (nothing too expensive) as it and you can scale the tank and other capabilities up a lot while the paper dps drops off a bit the applied damage goes up a ton to.

A cloaky ship that works in close range with blasters and only 30K EHP isn't terrible useful in general.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#984 - 2013-10-04 23:02:35 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

[Stratios] Requires a 3% CPU Implant

Covert Ops Cloaking Device
4x Heavy Neutron Blaster II (Void M)

2x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I

800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
2x Drone Damage Amplifier II

3x Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

5x Ogre II

Effective HP: 35,211 (Eve: 27,089)
Tank Ability: 8.97 DPS
Shield Resists - EM: 0.00%, Ex: 50.00%, Ki: 40.00%, Th: 20.00%
Armor Resists - EM: 76.52%, Ex: 57.73%, Ki: 69.47%, Th: 69.47%

Capacitor (Lasts 1m 50s)

Volley Damage: 3,664.45
DPS: 928.61


Think a bit more outside the box and throw some more implants (nothing too expensive) as it and you can scale the tank and other capabilities up a lot while the paper dps drops off a bit the applied damage goes up a ton to.

A cloaky ship that works in close range with blasters and only 30K EHP isn't terrible useful in general.

With Implants it can get to

[Statistics]

Effective HP: 44,647 (Eve: 34,166)
Tank Ability: 8.97 DPS
Shield Resists - EM: 0.00%, Ex: 50.00%, Ki: 40.00%, Th: 20.00%
Armor Resists - EM: 76.52%, Ex: 57.73%, Ki: 69.47%, Th: 69.47%

Capacitor (Lasts 1m 50s)

Volley Damage: 3,752.51
DPS: 951.91


[Implants - Cloaky hunter]

Slot 1: Low-grade Slave Alpha
Slot 2: Low-grade Slave Beta
Slot 3: Low-grade Slave Gamma
Slot 4: Low-grade Slave Delta
Slot 5: Low-grade Slave Epsilon
Slot 6: Zainou 'Gypsy' Electronics EE-603
Slot 7: Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Motion Prediction MR-705
Slot 8: Zainou 'Deadeye' Medium Hybrid Turret MH-805
Slot 9: Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Surgical Strike SS-905
Slot 10: Inherent Implants 'Noble' Hull Upgrades HG-1005

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#985 - 2013-10-04 23:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
I don't think people should be encouraged to use blaster since it has drone bonuses already. Giving it missile hard points instead of turrets would be better.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#986 - 2013-10-04 23:04:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Rek Seven wrote:
I don't think people should be encouraged to use blaster since it has drone bonuses already. giving it missile hard points instead of turrets would be better.

I don't disagree with that.

In fact if left as is and just gets a launcher hardpoints in place of turret hardpoints, it shaves 100 DPS off of a full gank fit and shatters its tank like that. or to get a decent tank you have to sacrifice almost 200 DPS from a full gank setup.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#987 - 2013-10-04 23:20:14 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Dehval wrote:

People in this thread would tell you otherwise because apparently heavies are horrible against a double webbed and scrammed target. Even Berserkers which are fast enough to catch most ABing cruiser and some MWDing ones.

These are not Capital Sized guns we are talking about. They have the tracking speed of an average cruiser weapon, they are going to hit whatever you catch.


Yeah well base Ogre damage application isn't amazing but this ship has plenty of ways to go about applying that damage to stuff they'd otherwise struggle to hit if your a little creative - even scram + double web would work fairly well and is fairly standard fitting.


To scram/dual web you'd have to armor fit, and therefore lose the mythical 1100 DPS.

You could get about 700, but that's hardly overpowered given the ~50k EHP

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#988 - 2013-10-04 23:20:15 UTC
50 pages in here's a t;dr: for any newcomers:

The cruiser is fine, either roll it out as is or put a laser bonus for maximum amarr/gallente authenticity.

(Ice) Miner for life.
Dehval
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#989 - 2013-10-04 23:22:16 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
But I'm really eager to see those swarm of Ogre drones suddenly becoming a weapon of devastation, and I wonder why BS don't fill their drone bay with these already.
Because 90% of battleships will never see small scale combat, 5% are kiting fits or lack decent drone bays, and that final 5% would use Heavies.

On a Hyperion, it is very common to fit Ogres. You have blasters and webs for close range. Ogres love webs for close range. Before the Domi changes, Ogres were a popular choice for the close range blaster fits. A Vindicator would use Heavies because of their 90% webbing power. I've yet to see Ogres used on the new Geddon, but that is mostly because it is used as a cheap Bhaalgorn and all its mid slots are taken up by cap boosters and its better to just use Mediums at that point.

Dropping down to battlecruiser because they are almost in the same category... Prophecies and Myrmidons often use heavies, Prophecy because you need 2 for an optimal damage output for 75 bandwidth and Myrmidon because it is a blaster drone boat that would likely use at least one web. The Eos now uses heavies almost exclusively as well.

I could use Gardes in the fits and people wouldn't bat an eye. Its only 80 dps less with 4 DDA. but no, once you start using a Heavy drone people go insane like its the worst thing since Fidel Castro.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#990 - 2013-10-04 23:36:54 UTC
Eko Fromtv wrote:
50 pages in here's a t;dr: for any newcomers:

The cruiser is fine, either roll it out as is or put a laser bonus for maximum amarr/gallente authenticity.


Forgetting explorers again lol
+ 10% virus strengh please

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#991 - 2013-10-04 23:41:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Omnathious Deninard wrote:


Slot 1: Low-grade Slave Alpha
Slot 2: Low-grade Slave Beta
Slot 3: Low-grade Slave Gamma
Slot 4: Low-grade Slave Delta
Slot 5: Low-grade Slave Epsilon
Slot 6: Zainou 'Gypsy' Electronics EE-603
Slot 7: Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Motion Prediction MR-705
Slot 8: Zainou 'Deadeye' Medium Hybrid Turret MH-805
Slot 9: Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Surgical Strike SS-905
Slot 10: Inherent Implants 'Noble' Hull Upgrades HG-1005


Wasn't really thinking slaves though I guess thats one way to do it, using other implants to approach it another way via having more fitting, etc. produces some other useful results.

M1k3y Koontz wrote:


To scram/dual web you'd have to armor fit, and therefore lose the mythical 1100 DPS.

You could get about 700, but that's hardly overpowered given the ~50k EHP


Not really looked at shield fits yet, theres a few fits that are similiar to the cloaky prot style that are doable with a bit of creativity and while won't put out 1k dps still put out a pretty decent amount of damage for a cloaky while having good tank, tackle, etc.

EDIT: If you do go shield fit you'd go for skirmish and make the most of the high base speed and good agility and tank isn't really that important though it makes it more of an opportunist chip than a hunter killer type thing.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#992 - 2013-10-05 00:06:56 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Eko Fromtv wrote:
50 pages in here's a t;dr: for any newcomers:

The cruiser is fine, either roll it out as is or put a laser bonus for maximum amarr/gallente authenticity.


Forgetting explorers again lol
+ 10% virus strengh please

FFS, now you are being dense. It was shown that null sites can be done with no bonus at all.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#993 - 2013-10-05 00:10:42 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Eko Fromtv wrote:
50 pages in here's a t;dr: for any newcomers:

The cruiser is fine, either roll it out as is or put a laser bonus for maximum amarr/gallente authenticity.


Forgetting explorers again lol
+ 10% virus strengh please

FFS, now you are being dense. It was shown that null sites can be done with no bonus at all.

Nope just thought you were lucky, can't replicate your experience sorry.
Still requesting plus ten virus strength, can't rely on being lucky all the time

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Kyzer Artevis
Night Raven Dark Force
#994 - 2013-10-05 00:22:11 UTC
Shouldnt these ships be compatible with all different races? I mean they are made by SOE. I personally like to see them like the Gnosis, with equal weapon bonus for all 4 different weapon systems, but of course in order to use them one has to have trained the required skills for each race, eg Caldari cruiser for missile damage bonus and Amarr cruiser for Lazors damage bonus...
What do you think?
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#995 - 2013-10-05 00:25:14 UTC
Kyzer Artevis wrote:
Shouldnt these ships be compatible with all different races? I mean they are made by SOE. I personally like to see them like the Gnosis, with equal weapon bonus for all 4 different weapon systems, but of course in order to use them one has to have trained the required skills for each race, eg Caldari cruiser for missile damage bonus and Amarr cruiser for Lazors damage bonus...
What do you think?

Honestly the Gnosis suffered from excelling at nothing, beautiful ship, useless for exploration with no virus bonus, and lives mainly in hangars and hisec.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#996 - 2013-10-05 00:25:36 UTC
CCP I can't wait to see these boats in Nov. They look amazing, and will be great exploring ships, with a bite. I hope we get a surprise with a battleship version too.

I hope we see Cald/Min faction ships coming in a near expansion too. (Thukker) haha

Thank's for all you do, and most of all thanks for listening to us players, even if we get out of hand sometimes!
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#997 - 2013-10-05 00:45:10 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Eko Fromtv wrote:
50 pages in here's a t;dr: for any newcomers:

The cruiser is fine, either roll it out as is or put a laser bonus for maximum amarr/gallente authenticity.


Forgetting explorers again lol
+ 10% virus strengh please

FFS, now you are being dense. It was shown that null sites can be done with no bonus at all.

Nope just thought you were lucky, can't replicate your experience sorry.
Still requesting plus ten virus strength, can't rely on being lucky all the time

I can do that too.

I can't replicate you results either, so I will just say you have bad luck. And they can't obsolete an entire line of ships because someone is unlucky.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#998 - 2013-10-05 01:01:17 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Eko Fromtv wrote:
50 pages in here's a t;dr: for any newcomers:

The cruiser is fine, either roll it out as is or put a laser bonus for maximum amarr/gallente authenticity.


Forgetting explorers again lol
+ 10% virus strengh please

FFS, now you are being dense. It was shown that null sites can be done with no bonus at all.

Nope just thought you were lucky, can't replicate your experience sorry.
Still requesting plus ten virus strength, can't rely on being lucky all the time

I can do that too.

I can't replicate you results either, so I will just say you have bad luck. And they can't obsolete an entire line of ships because someone is unlucky.

I am not just trying to be difficuilt,no one i know is seeing this sort of behavour, in tranquility, and people here were seriously suprised that you had better minigames than you would see in hisec.
There are 3 conclusions, you were either crazy lucky or the test server does not replicate the server on tranquility, i do not know how the difficuilty metric is influenced by number of attemps/ successes but they clearly are NOT the same.There is a difference in behaviour.there is no third conclusion.
Try it on tranquility and i am confident you will be enlightened.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#999 - 2013-10-05 01:11:55 UTC
Do you think the only place I hack is on Sisi? I have done plenty on TQ. The only surprise I had was the 2 direct path mini games. Putting those aside, 7 hacking attempts were done 2 were givemes so I will discount those, 1 failed attempt, so 4 of 7 hacks were successful. That seems right for a Unbonused ship.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1000 - 2013-10-05 01:15:55 UTC


I can't replicate you results either, so I will just say you have bad luck. And they can't obsolete an entire line of ships because someone is unlucky.[/quote]
I am not just trying to be difficuilt,no one i know is seeing this sort of behavour, in tranquility, and people here were seriously suprised that you had better minigames than you would see in hisec.
There are 3 conclusions, you were either crazy lucky or the test server does not replicate the server on tranquility, i do not know how the difficuilty metric is influenced by number of attemps/ successes but they clearly are NOT the same.There is a difference in behaviour.there is no third conclusion.
Try it on tranquility and i am confident you will be enlightened.[/quote]
Lets also address your last point you contend that if the exploring frigate and cruiser are able to explore as well as the covert ops then the covert ops is dead.
Why?
More than 1 ship has a bonus to drones, more than 1 ship has a bonus to armor, more than ....etc does a new ship with any of these bonuses obsolete all the others?
No
If the covert ops is so poor that no one wants it anymore then the issue is with that ship and it needs to be looked at in it's review
Please cease trying to destroy the chance of these new ships being useful and used.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE