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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#961 - 2013-10-04 22:01:05 UTC
Sir Mattsimus wrote:
I truly hope a CCP dev sees this post.

There are two things I love to do in Eve more than anything else. Probe down sites to hack/analyze and probe down ships so that I or my alliance mates might try to destroy them. I like probing and exploring very very much and recent changes to launching and arranging probes along with the changes to the hacking/archeology sites have improved my experience immensely.

I prefer to explore in nullsec because it is the most exciting/dangerous frontier, yields the best loot and there are so many nullsec systems to see. The only reason I would explore in lowsec is to find gas sites and the only reason I ever explored in highsec were because my skills weren't yet maxed and I was still timid about the dangers of leaving highsec space. But even with maxed hacking/archeology skills, using a covert ops frigate fit with memetic algorithm bank and emission scope analyzer rigs and with tech 2 analyzer and hacking modules the hacking minigames in nullsec sites can be viciously difficult.

+5 virus strength?

I will never use these ships for exploration.

Without probe launcher fitting bonuses, using an expanded probe launcher seems barely viable on the Stratios. So I don't think I will use the Stratios for helping my gang find people either. Especially when the covert ops frigate is so much less expensive and has a higher scanning strength.

When I saw that SOE ships were going to be introduced I was overjoyed. As someone who spends most of his time in New Eden launching probes and finding what is hidden, to hear that the faction that makes the best probes, probe launchers and probing implants were getting their very own ships made me so very excited and hopeful. I had hoped to perhaps find a cruiser that was a middle ground between the covert ops frigate and strategic cruiser with emergent locus analyzer and covert reconfiguration subsystems.

Seeing these probe and hacking specs leaves me so very very disappointed.

“What we're shooting for is ships that are themed around exploration...”

If you are going to introduce these ships as they are, it seems wrong to market them as exploration themed vessels.
I consider myself to be an avid explorer but I will never buy these ships.


+1

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Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#962 - 2013-10-04 22:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
@ Kaarous Aldurald: how do you run 6/10 with sentry drones in a ship that can't tank the site?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#963 - 2013-10-04 22:04:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Rek Seven wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Okay then my mistake. I'm no null sec carebear so i don't know anything about running these sites but if this ship needs sentry drones to run there sites, is there any point in equipping it with lasers?


That's just my point. No, there is no reason to have lasers on this ship, or a laser bonus. Regardless of whatever someone chooses to do with it, none of those scenarios involve the use of laser turrets.


I agree with the first part but the second part makes no sense. lasers aren't useful in any scenario?


Ok, look.

This thing has probe bonuses, right? So it's used for exploration.

Relic and data sites have no rats. So the only consideration for relic and data sites is in how fast you can do them. Under most circumstances except for the crazy-lucky guy who posted above, +10 virus strength is the most important factor in doing that so that you spend the least amount of time possible not cloaked up. Lasers don't help with that.

The Stratios does not help with any of those thing in comparison to a T2 cov ops frigate. If you are intending to do those sites, you should use a cov ops frigate instead. (that, and they are much cheaper)

But, if you want to do DED sites, you will want to use sentry drones. Sentry drones have a RIDICULOUS range. Well beyond what you can do with unbonused lasers. Those will be able to reach out about half the distance that your drones can hit at. Heck, the damn rats can probably outrange unbonused medium lasers.

So the lasers are useless in that situation as well.

They don't help a single thing that this boat is supposed to do.

Rek Seven wrote:
question: how do you guys run 6/10 with sentry drones in a ship that can't tank the site?


The sentries outrange them significantly. They can't hurt you if they can't get close enough to hit you.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#964 - 2013-10-04 22:09:09 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Eko Fromtv wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Okay then my mistake. I'm no null sec carebear so i don't know anything about running these sites but if this ship needs sentry drones to run there sites, is there any point in equipping it with lasers?
That's just my point. No, there is no reason to have lasers on this ship, or a laser bonus. Regardless of whatever someone chooses to do with it, none of those scenarios involve the use of laser turrets.
The ship is half Amarr for the Epress' sake. Do you really need more reasons?
yup and Amarr are half drones and it gets a resistance bonus. so it fulfills it Amarr side quire well


Yeah and drones are a Gallente weapon even more. resists are not weapons. he ship needs to be identified as half and half and that means lasers and drones. You know this, don't be THAT guy. No one like that guy.

(Ice) Miner for life.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#965 - 2013-10-04 22:10:46 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
This thing is not overpowered. Very few people will realistically fly the 16k EHP glass cannon fit. The few who do will learn the problem with it quickly. I love how people ignore the lock time delay and the lack of damage application to anything below Battleship-class ships.

The reason it is considered OP right now is it is to good of a hunter ship


That's really the point of this. To be good at hunting down and killing stuff.

And I'm pretty sure - at least, I hope CCP ignores the idiots throwing around Ogre DPS numbers saying :it gets 800 DPS" when in reality probably only half of that is effective DPS. And even that's with a glass cannon fit.

But right now it is to good, it tramples over all other hunter class ships.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#966 - 2013-10-04 22:11:31 UTC
Eko Fromtv wrote:

Yeah and drones are a Gallente weapon even more. resists are not weapons. he ship needs to be identified as half and half and that means lasers and drones. You know this, don't be THAT guy. No one like that guy.


Yeah just like how the vigilant gets a bonus to projectile weapons and drones... oh wait.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#967 - 2013-10-04 22:12:18 UTC
Eko Fromtv wrote:


Yeah and drones are a Gallente weapon even more. resists are not weapons. he ship needs to be identified as half and half and that means lasers and drones. You know this, don't be THAT guy. No one like that guy.


It has two bonuses, one for each racial skill.

One is armor resists. That is an Amarr racial bonus.

One is drones. That is a Gallente racial bonus.

They are 50/50. So take away the cap bonus, and put some launchers on this damn thing.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#968 - 2013-10-04 22:13:39 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Eko Fromtv wrote:

Yeah and drones are a Gallente weapon even more. resists are not weapons. he ship needs to be identified as half and half and that means lasers and drones. You know this, don't be THAT guy. No one like that guy.


Yeah just like how the vigilant gets a bonus to projectile weapons and drones... oh wait.

Cause web bonuses are never seen on Minmatar hulls.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#969 - 2013-10-04 22:17:11 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Eko Fromtv wrote:

Yeah and drones are a Gallente weapon even more. resists are not weapons. he ship needs to be identified as half and half and that means lasers and drones. You know this, don't be THAT guy. No one like that guy.


Yeah just like how the vigilant gets a bonus to projectile weapons and drones... oh wait.

Cause web bonuses are never seen on Minmatar hulls.


He said only weapons count, stupid. Blink
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#970 - 2013-10-04 22:18:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So take away the cap bonus, and put some launchers on this damn thing.


That might work... a range bonus to heavy assault maybe (e.g. velocity)?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#971 - 2013-10-04 22:19:31 UTC
Eko Fromtv wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Eko Fromtv wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Okay then my mistake. I'm no null sec carebear so i don't know anything about running these sites but if this ship needs sentry drones to run there sites, is there any point in equipping it with lasers?
That's just my point. No, there is no reason to have lasers on this ship, or a laser bonus. Regardless of whatever someone chooses to do with it, none of those scenarios involve the use of laser turrets.
The ship is half Amarr for the Epress' sake. Do you really need more reasons?
yup and Amarr are half drones and it gets a resistance bonus. so it fulfills it Amarr side quire well


Yeah and drones are a Gallente weapon even more. resists are not weapons. he ship needs to be identified as half and half and that means lasers and drones. You know this, don't be THAT guy. No one like that guy.

The guristas ships have a resistance bonus and a drone bonus, and a role bonus to missiles.
Blood raiders ships get neuts and webs and a role bonus to lasers, only one weapon bonus there.
Angel ships get get 3 bonuses to projectiles and yet gallente has nothing to do with projectiles.
The nightmare gets 3 laser bonuses and is half caldari.
Serpentis get bonuses to hybrids and webs but not 2 weapons.
Why should these get 2 weapon bonuses when all others get 1 weapon and 1 utility for the most part.

The guristas ships are due for an confirmed overhaul so I can't count those so much.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#972 - 2013-10-04 22:19:41 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Eko Fromtv wrote:

Yeah and drones are a Gallente weapon even more. resists are not weapons. he ship needs to be identified as half and half and that means lasers and drones. You know this, don't be THAT guy. No one like that guy.


Yeah just like how the vigilant gets a bonus to projectile weapons and drones... oh wait.

Cause web bonuses are never seen on Minmatar hulls.


He said only weapons count, stupid. Blink

He's not terribly familiar with pirate faction ships as a whole then.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#973 - 2013-10-04 22:20:00 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So take away the cap bonus, and put some launchers on this damn thing.


That might work... a range bonus to heavy assault maybe?


Not even bonuses, I just want to fit some RLMs on this boat. After that, nothing can touch me, which is probably why it doesn't have launcher hardpoints.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#974 - 2013-10-04 22:20:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Not getting some of the hate - sure you have to think outside the box a little in some cases but quite liking the potential with these ships as is.

Think some people are seriously under-estimating the Stratios - throw some implants at it and you can make something a bit scary. (EDIT: Don't want to give anything away but with blasters and setup for close range its possible to do something pretty nasty with it and have the damage application for the dps and enough tank to not be totally outside of gank cloaky prot league).

However I can't see anyone fitting lasers to the Stratios ever and the bonus to cap use certainly won't encourage that.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#975 - 2013-10-04 22:25:18 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

But right now it is to good, it tramples over all other hunter class ships.


How so? T3s are still tankier, recons still have better ewar, Cov-ops will are better at exploration.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Dehval
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#976 - 2013-10-04 22:28:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Dehval
Rroff wrote:
(EDIT: Don't want to give anything away but with blasters and setup for close range its possible to do something pretty nasty with it and have the damage application for the dps and enough tank to not be totally outside of gank cloaky prot league).

People in this thread would tell you otherwise because apparently heavies are horrible against a double webbed and scrammed target. Even Berserkers which are fast enough to catch most ABing cruiser and some MWDing ones.

These are not Capital Sized guns we are talking about. They have the tracking speed of an average cruiser weapon, they are going to hit whatever you catch.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#977 - 2013-10-04 22:36:24 UTC
Dehval wrote:

People in this thread would tell you otherwise because apparently heavies are horrible against a double webbed and scrammed target. Even Berserkers which are fast enough to catch most ABing cruiser and some MWDing ones.

These are not Capital Sized guns we are talking about. They have the tracking speed of an average cruiser weapon, they are going to hit whatever you catch.


Yeah well base Ogre damage application isn't amazing but this ship has plenty of ways to go about applying that damage to stuff they'd otherwise struggle to hit if your a little creative - even scram + double web would work fairly well and is fairly standard fitting.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#978 - 2013-10-04 22:40:00 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
This thing is not overpowered. Very few people will realistically fly the 16k EHP glass cannon fit. The few who do will learn the problem with it quickly. I love how people ignore the lock time delay and the lack of damage application to anything below Battleship-class ships.

The reason it is considered OP right now is it is to good of a hunter ship


That's really the point of this. To be good at hunting down and killing stuff.

And I'm pretty sure - at least, I hope CCP ignores the idiots throwing around Ogre DPS numbers saying :it gets 800 DPS" when in reality probably only half of that is effective DPS. And even that's with a glass cannon fit.

But right now it is to good, it tramples over all other hunter class ships.


How is it too good? Mind pointing out? All I've seen is 16k EHP fits that do 400 DPS (800, but when you use Hammerheads because you realize the Ogres are useless, it goes to 400). It's a very balanced ship. Before throwing fits out of EFT that no one will use, why don't you try fitting one yourself, consider the lack of optimal or tracking bonus on both drones and turrets, and consider the lock time delay.

You'll quickly find that you are wrong.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#979 - 2013-10-04 22:41:55 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

But right now it is to good, it tramples over all other hunter class ships.


How so? T3s are still tankier, recons still have better ewar, Cov-ops will are better at exploration.

This, too.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#980 - 2013-10-04 22:43:13 UTC
Dehval wrote:
Rroff wrote:
(EDIT: Don't want to give anything away but with blasters and setup for close range its possible to do something pretty nasty with it and have the damage application for the dps and enough tank to not be totally outside of gank cloaky prot league).

People in this thread would tell you otherwise because apparently heavies are horrible against a double webbed and scrammed target. Even Berserkers which are fast enough to catch most ABing cruiser and some MWDing ones.

These are not Capital Sized guns we are talking about. They have the tracking speed of an average cruiser weapon, they are going to hit whatever you catch.

Above all, people in this thread love to talk out of their ass without backing up any of their assertion with anything daring to look like an argument.

But in real EVE, the Stratios is a worse Navy Vexor with a cloak and T3 cruisers can already do more than anything a Stratios can do.

But I'm really eager to see those swarm of Ogre drones suddenly becoming a weapon of devastation, and I wonder why BS don't fill their drone bay with these already.