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Ways to Make L4 More Fun?

Author
Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-10-04 03:57:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Antonio Steele
I have been thinking long and hard about how to make L4 missioning less of a drag without hurting my income too much. Don't say go PVP. PVP is fun, but I am talking about making isk while having fun. PVP is a money pit so you need income from somewhere. I've done several L4 missions in my T2 blaster Enyo, but they take a long time due to transit time between targets and low DPS. My current plan is to get a Cerberus and slap T2 ham launchers on it along with 2 T2 Hydraulic bay thrusters which give it 53.5 km range with rage missiles and max skills, and 96.3 km range with javelin missiles. DPS would be 738 with rage missiles before any drone damage added. I think this will be a fun diversion from my MJD Cruise Raven.

I would like to hear any other SERIOUS suggestions for making L4 more fun, and not just suggestions for me. I think it would be good to make this a general topic to share ways we all make our isk grinding less of a grind.
Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-10-04 03:58:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Antonio Steele
made a mistake second post lol!
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#3 - 2013-10-04 04:13:38 UTC
fly whatever does the most deepz, anything with less deepz than MAXIMUM! feels slow and boring. that 783 ham deeps would put me to sleep. although at least with auto-targeting missiles you can semi afk

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Baggo Hammers
#4 - 2013-10-04 04:26:20 UTC
If that is the only way you know to make isk, switch between ships, turret types etc. All kind of mix and match stuff you can do. In the end though missions become mind numbing and you realize there are far more lucrative avenues.

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.

Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#5 - 2013-10-04 04:28:43 UTC
If you want to have a proper break from running missions, buy the T2 cruiser but use it for hunting ded 4s. It may take a while to get some drops but skinnerbox is a genuinely different feeling to L4 grind.

I used a deimos and a vigilant to do some L4s, but reality is that its only more fun till you have killed everything but the battleships, and then its less fun because T2 cruisers just can't do the 1000 or so dps in a mission config required to stop the battleships grinding at you.
Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-10-04 04:47:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Antonio Steele
Tauranon wrote:
If you want to have a proper break from running missions, buy the T2 cruiser but use it for hunting ded 4s. It may take a while to get some drops but skinnerbox is a genuinely different feeling to L4 grind.

I used a deimos and a vigilant to do some L4s, but reality is that its only more fun till you have killed everything but the battleships, and then its less fun because T2 cruisers just can't do the 1000 or so dps in a mission config required to stop the battleships grinding at you.


Where are DED complexes anyway? Are they in high sec? I'm still not up for solo flying in low or null. I've been part of a 50-75 man fleet my corp throws together now and again for a low and null roam (Last time my Atron dropped out of warp on top of an exploding bomb a hound had dropped Lol ), but know next to nothing about surviving outside highsec LOL! I might be more willing to leave highsec on my own once I have a fat stack of isk to absorb losses. My character may be almost a year old, but I spent several months just updating my skill que, and 3-4 months unsubscribed due to being unemployed. I only got into L4's and flying BS's in the past month.

Also, I don't want to join a player corp. Too much drama and wardecs. I'm in a NPC corp that is actually organized and does stuff and I'm happy. We even have a website LOL!
Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-10-04 04:48:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Antonio Steele
dang it! I keep quoting myself when I mean to edit my post once again another junk post.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#8 - 2013-10-04 05:24:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Pretty much anywhere. Ded 3s and 4s spawn in highsec and the cerb you were thinking of can enter them. Just need a probe launcher to find them.

Afaik Henry Plantagenent spends most of your (and my) timezone announcing whatever loot just dropped from his exploration on CAS chat so you should have a good picture of how much loot a dedicated highsec prober is extracting :)
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#9 - 2013-10-04 12:48:48 UTC
Well, what I did was get my wife into the game. She blasts the big stuff in an SNI while I play logi/drone bunny in a Scimitar. Is it efficient use of two accounts? No. But we're both having a great time of it.
ExcalibursTemplar
CANZUK
#10 - 2013-10-04 13:14:07 UTC
Antonio Steele wrote:
I have been thinking long and hard about how to make L4 missioning less of a drag without hurting my income too much. Don't say go PVP. PVP is fun, but I am talking about making isk while having fun. PVP is a money pit so you need income from somewhere. I've done several L4 missions in my T2 blaster Enyo, but they take a long time due to transit time between targets and low DPS. My current plan is to get a Cerberus and slap T2 ham launchers on it along with 2 T2 Hydraulic bay thrusters which give it 53.5 km range with rage missiles and max skills, and 96.3 km range with javelin missiles. DPS would be 738 with rage missiles before any drone damage added. I think this will be a fun diversion from my MJD Cruise Raven.

I would like to hear any other SERIOUS suggestions for making L4 more fun, and not just suggestions for me. I think it would be good to make this a general topic to share ways we all make our isk grinding less of a grind.


Start a locust fleet assign a couple of guys to salvaging then have the rest in maxed dps BS killing the npc. Your isk/h should stay roughly the same and you'll have a lot more fun as flying in a fleet is always more fun.
Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-10-04 15:14:50 UTC
Fun LVL 4 missions? The Machariel is the only real option. It is fast paced for a BS and making BS rats as well as whole room just Flop over is a lot more enjoyable than watching them slowly shrivel up and die which is why you are not enjoying the Cruise missiles.

I highly doubt you would hang up your caldari and train up the minmatar route but if you did I highly doubt you would ever fly a Caldari ship again.
Maaaaowm Ogeko
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#12 - 2013-10-04 16:12:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Maaaaowm Ogeko
Mathias Orsen wrote:
Fun LVL 4 missions? The Machariel is the only real option. It is fast paced for a BS and making BS rats as well as whole room just Flop over is a lot more enjoyable than watching them slowly shrivel up and die which is why you are not enjoying the Cruise missiles.

I highly doubt you would hang up your caldari and train up the minmatar route but if you did I highly doubt you would ever fly a Caldari ship again.



It's fairly easy to cross-train into Minmatar from Caldari. Just throwing that out there for the OP, in support of your suggestion. :)

Minmatar is primarily shield-tanked, so you won't have to bother too much about training a whole new tanking system. Many Minmatar ships use missiles as a primary or secondary weapon system, which you obviously already have. The only thing that might take a little while is training projectile turrets; but in the scheme of EVE's timeline, really, the time it would take to train to Large Projectile Turret is nothing.
Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-10-04 17:13:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Antonio Steele
Mathias Orsen wrote:
Fun LVL 4 missions? The Machariel is the only real option. It is fast paced for a BS and making BS rats as well as whole room just Flop over is a lot more enjoyable than watching them slowly shrivel up and die which is why you are not enjoying the Cruise missiles.

I highly doubt you would hang up your caldari and train up the minmatar route but if you did I highly doubt you would ever fly a Caldari ship again.


I used to fly an arty cane for quite a while so I have used minmatar ships quite a bit. I did research and found that the Raven seemed better than a maelstrom for L4 and I also was getting tired of my arty cane so I went the missile route. I have minmatar BS to 3 because I was orginally planning for a maelstrom before discovering the raven. For the longest time I was dabbling in all 5 weapon systems fairly equally(5th being drones). I also trained into all racial ships up to battlecruisers fairly equally. (frigs to 4 (gallente to 5), dessies to 5, cruisers to 3, BCs to 5)

My biggest concern with the Machariel is that it is too good. CCP is going to give it a heavy beating with the nerf bat soon enough and knowing them it may come out being total garbage. On top of that 1 billion isk for a ship is far out of my reach at the moment.

With the Mach do you use artillery or Autocannons. With the Hurricane artillery was best for missions due to range, but I've heard many people speak of using large autocannons and that they can have pretty decent range with the right modules added on and good DPS to boot.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#14 - 2013-10-04 18:41:53 UTC
Get a jump clone in all 4 empires and fly 4 different mission ships. Salvage and loot everything and use industry to make more money off of your reprocessed stuffs. LP and non LP wise. Each region has its ups and downs, and requires different strategies.

Right now the market is doing good because everybody is rushing SOE LP for the upcoming expansion.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-10-04 20:16:17 UTC
Can a Maelstrom be as fun as a Mach, or at least more fun than a MJD cruise missile raven? Also, can anyone suggest an L4 Maelstrom fit?
Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-10-04 23:37:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mathias Orsen
It's really the gear that makes the mach. The reason people use cruise missile Battleships is because they can MJD and be used at long range and they can fit 4x damage mods and a strong tank as if you really need much tank at 100km.

The mach works so well because it fits a full rack of damage and tracking mods. Generally you are left with only 3 or 4 mid slots to fit a shield tank on a ship that has no tanking bonus. The mach is an investment more than just a hull. Fleet tempest, Vargur, Fleet phoon are also good options. These ships are generally close to medium range DPS ships with very low tank.

The maelstrom is more of a tanking ship so you loose DPS and a lot of mobility. If you are looking for fun to fly then you really want a ship specialized in DPS. The maelstrom, being close range and slow, might leave you struggling with keeping the tank running as well as burning a micro warp drive to get in shooting range.

The pith tanked Vagabond does over 650 DPS and tanks very well. Fun to fly but for what it cost, it's really better to go with a mach for more DPS. Pith tanks are not cheap.

Overall, Minmatar Autocannon ships are better options because they are more agile and faster than Blaster boats with a little better range. Lasers struggle against things resistant to EM and thermal, otherwise Pulse lasers and scorch are bad to the bone. Missiles have poor damage application. Missile boats do have the best survivability but that isn't fun.

My current advise, Farm isk with what you can. After the next expansion, the Vargur very well may be the ship of choice.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#17 - 2013-10-05 00:27:59 UTC
This video shows you exactly how to have more fun playing L4's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lon41NCRvOM
Satori Sartori
All-Out
White Stag Exit Bag
#18 - 2013-10-05 03:12:18 UTC
In my experience, the only way you can make L4s interesting is to do something that's not L4s on the side - talk with people, watch stuff, listen to music, podcasts and such, read webcomics. L4s are deeply flawed when it comes to the fun factor - when they're difficult, they're difficult in a way that's unexciting and just drags out instead of challenging you. When they're easy, they're trivial and just a routine, a chore.

I see them as a necessary reliable income that I resort to now and then, but if you can afford it, you're better off avoiding them than trying to solve the impossible riddle of making them fun. Do something else, and explore different ways of making money, be creative, do your research because you've only experienced the tip of the iceberg. Hell, I could bet anything that you'd have more fun if you found a proper corp that actually creates its own content instead on relying on monotonous missions.

I'd like to address one more point as well - you don't need to keep piling up your ISK hoard to PVP. T1 PVP frigates can cost as little as 5 mil (with effective, t2 fits). Do some missions, and then do some cheap-ship PVP, it's a nice balanced approach that won't kill your wallet, but will kill your boredom. Don't even worry about your sec status, you're gaining a ton from missions and there's always tags if you go overboard with podding (not a good idea due to killrights).
Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-10-05 04:25:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Antonio Steele
Mathias Orsen wrote:
It's really the gear that makes the mach. The reason people use cruise missile Battleships is because they can MJD and be used at long range and they can fit 4x damage mods and a strong tank as if you really need much tank at 100km.

The mach works so well because it fits a full rack of damage and tracking mods. Generally you are left with only 3 or 4 mid slots to fit a shield tank on a ship that has no tanking bonus. The mach is an investment more than just a hull. Fleet tempest, Vargur, Fleet phoon are also good options. These ships are generally close to medium range DPS ships with very low tank.

The maelstrom is more of a tanking ship so you loose DPS and a lot of mobility. If you are looking for fun to fly then you really want a ship specialized in DPS. The maelstrom, being close range and slow, might leave you struggling with keeping the tank running as well as burning a micro warp drive to get in shooting range.

The pith tanked Vagabond does over 650 DPS and tanks very well. Fun to fly but for what it cost, it's really better to go with a mach for more DPS. Pith tanks are not cheap.

Overall, Minmatar Autocannon ships are better options because they are more agile and faster than Blaster boats with a little better range. Lasers struggle against things resistant to EM and thermal, otherwise Pulse lasers and scorch are bad to the bone. Missiles have poor damage application. Missile boats do have the best survivability but that isn't fun.

My current advise, Farm isk with what you can. After the next expansion, the Vargur very well may be the ship of choice.



Now you have me thinking about flying a Tempest and training for a Vargur. I've been playing with both the regular and fleet issue tempest but find it hard to get a decent sized tank onto it. Should a Tempest run tracking computers and an armor tank or tracking enhancers and a shield tank? I couldn't seem to get a decent tank out of either one, though I do not know how little tank these ships can get away with since they are pretty fast and have a small sig for a BS. My passive shield tanked hurricane had almost as large a sig and a little more speed then my proposed tempest fits, and less tank (though I only did L3 with it).
Also, until I get into T2 turrets (so I can get Barrage Ammo) should I stick to artillery? Playing with EFT dps graphs using a scorpion with an afterburner as a target I found that with my skills (modified with BS 4 and large projectile 4) autocannons beat out artillery only at ranges below roughly 25 km. This is with a 3/3 gyro/TE setup in the lows.
Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-10-05 05:41:21 UTC
Antonio Steele wrote:

Now you have me thinking about flying a Tempest and training for a Vargur. I've been playing with both the regular and fleet issue tempest but find it hard to get a decent sized tank onto it. Should a Tempest run tracking computers and an armor tank or tracking enhancers and a shield tank? I couldn't seem to get a decent tank out of either one, though I do not know how little tank these ships can get away with since they are pretty fast and have a small sig for a BS. My passive shield tanked hurricane had almost as large a sig and a little more speed then my proposed tempest fits, and less tank (though I only did L3 with it).
Also, until I get into T2 turrets (so I can get Barrage Ammo) should I stick to artillery? Playing with EFT dps graphs using a scorpion with an afterburner as a target I found that with my skills (modified with BS 4 and large projectile 4) autocannons beat out artillery only at ranges below roughly 25 km. This is with a 3/3 gyro/TE setup in the lows.


I've never liked the idea of Artillery because they fire extremely slow. As for the tank, I always go tracking enhancers and shield tank. A very expensive shield tank with full crystal implants. Before I had a Deadspace tank, I dropped DPS and tracking for extra tank helping mods such as cap flux, power diagnostic and or damage control.

The advantage to artillery on the other hand is that you could try using it with a MJD and it might actually be worth doing. Just keep the guns split because it might only take one or two turrets to single shot a frigate once you are putting out max DPS.
Don't forget hardwires as well. +3 gunnery mods are cheap.
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