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The True Spirit of Vak’Atioth

Author
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#41 - 2013-09-30 18:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:

So for the record, are you saying that Odelya is a member of the Royal Khanid nobility?
Huh? Have you lost your mind now? What my sister meant is Royal Khanid nobiliy, as opposed to Imperial nobility—but doesn't this go without saying? What should a Duchess of Palas else be? Caldari nobility?



It's impossible for you to be a member of the Royal Khanid nobility and for you or your sister to suggest otherwise is arguably treason against your King.
Royal is used to qualify the Khanid Kingdom. Khanid—without the qualifier—might be confused for a Khanid holder in the Empire. Since my dear sister is a lawyer herself she wouldn't make mistake.


That's funny, since I'm a lawyer by trade as well. The difference is that I'm right. Though we'll probably have to agree to disagree on that point.


Quote:

It is known that you hardly leave your quarters, so why should I waste more than you are worth? Should you however have the guts I challenge you for a duel—one versus one. My sister will work out the details.

The same for you, traitor scum.


As you are no doubt aware, the corp that I belong to has a ban on duels. And on top of that, I'm certainly not going to duel with a member of a supposedly allied corporation.

The one thing I don't understand is since you seem to hate everyone loyal to the Empire so much, why are you still in the militia?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#42 - 2013-09-30 18:33:04 UTC
Any time! Bring your friends, you should be able to find me in the Seevadin or Homroon constellations, or most any place in lowsec Kingdom or Aridia.

You might want to upgrade your vessels though, I'm not sure if ships of your usual tonnage would fare well in our neighborhood. Lots of nasty folks about, things can be a bit rough on occasion.



Sabik now, Sabik forever

Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
Stay Feral
#43 - 2013-09-30 18:37:50 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
I'm a lawyer by trade as well.

This explains so much.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Odelya d'Hanguest
Order of St. Severian
#44 - 2013-09-30 18:49:52 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
As you are no doubt aware, the corp that I belong to has a ban on duels. And on top of that, I'm certainly not going to duel with a member of a supposedly allied corporation.
I was aware that you are a sissy. But I wasn’t aware that you would even hide behind some stupid corp rules. And if you are certainly not going to exchange gun fire in form of an honourable duel with a member of an allied corporation, then why do you keep insulting this very member? I will fight for the Reclaiming until my last clone malfunctions, so who are you to ******* lecture me?

Silas Vitalia wrote:
Any time!
My sister will work out the details with you.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#45 - 2013-09-30 19:18:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
As you are no doubt aware, the corp that I belong to has a ban on duels. And on top of that, I'm certainly not going to duel with a member of a supposedly allied corporation.
I was aware that you are a sissy. But I wasn’t aware that you would even hide behind some stupid corp rules. And if you are certainly not going to exchange gun fire in form of an honourable duel with a member of an allied corporation, then why do you keep insulting this very member? I will fight for the Reclaiming until my last clone malfunctions, so who are you to ******* lecture me?


If you don't want me to insult you, then perhaps you should stop insulting not only the basis of my beliefs but everything that I stand for.

And I'll let you in on a little secret - I've gone easy on you so far out of respect for your corporation.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-09-30 20:28:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Makkal Hanaya wrote:

I reserve the right to do so.


And if you so wish to exercise that right, feel free to do so. However, I do recall that in your faith, God and God alone passes final judgement, not man.

Diana Kim wrote:

I have killed a lot.
But I am a soldier, not a murderer.


Ah, the classic "I'm just a soldier following orders". I can't tell you how many war crime trials I've covered where people thought that slaughtering the innocent is okay as long as you're wearing a uniform, and someone in a shinier uniform told you to do it.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#47 - 2013-09-30 22:05:04 UTC
Morijah d'Hanguest wrote:
In the Name of the Lord


Ms Mithra,

thank you for your interest in genealogical matters pertaining to our house. Our lawyers referred to certain errors in your statement that I would like to make mention of.

1.) Her Grace is on no account a persona non grata in the Empire.
2.) The requirements to address Her Grace according to protocol and custom, are unrelated to her desires and wishes, or that of other parties.
3.) The judges and arbiters of the Theology Council hold no jurisdiction over Royal Khanid nobility.

On a more personal note I would like to add that Her Grace’s comments on the Theology Council and further theological questions are completely within the legitimate scope of interpretation.

Yours sincerely,
Morijah d’Hanguest
CEO of Ishtirak d’Hanguest


CEO d'Hanguest,

I'm always interested in matters of genealogy, it's nothing that especially pertains to your house. As to your lawyers Statements about my Errors:

1) Your lawyers are free to opine on the status of Odelya d'Hanguest as much as they want to. I rather trust the appropriate institutions in the Empire with whom the Empire considers as what.
2) The requirement to address anyone by protocol and custom is indeed something that is unrelated to the desires or wishes of the one who is adressed.
3) The Theology Council might not hold jurisdiction over Ms. d'Hanguest, but they do so over me.

My stance is that I've good reasons to address Ms. d'Hanguest without the titles a noble person deserves. I see nothing noble in her libel. Therefore I think I have good reasons not to address her as befitting for a noble according to Imperial protocol and custom. If she wants me to change how I address her without changing her behaviour, she will have to go through the institution that holds jurisdiction over me - which happens to be the Theology Council in such a matter.

So, in short: If she wants to be addressed in full style by me - or any other Imperial citizen for the matter - she has to appeal to the judges of the Theology Council, if I - or said person - is unwilling to do so.

Regards,
N. Mithra
Morijah d'Hanguest
Ishtirak d'Hanguest
#48 - 2013-10-02 11:17:50 UTC
In the Name of the Lord


Ms Mithra,

thank you for your explanations and comments.

1.) See 3.)
2.) The requirements to address Her Grace according to protocol and custom, are unrelated to her desires and wishes, or that of other parties.
3.) Although our lawyers point out that the juridical questions pertaining to the actual legal relationship between Kingdom and Empire are complex and remain largely unanswered, it is our legal opinion that since June 7th YC111 royal decrees are lodged at the Privy Council and the Imperial Chancellery, and are stored in their databases. The Privy Council holds authority over you, Ms Mithra, and His Majesty King Khanid II holds a seat under the name of “Lord Councillor Khanid of the Khanid Kingdom”. Royal decrees related to titles and holdings of the Kingdom are of full validity in the Empire.

As you have found yourself by consulting the Book of Records in Dam Torsad, Her Grace’s titles were granted by royal decree and have been in our family for generations uncountable. Your personal stance in this matter is as relevant as you were to opine that an elephant is not an elephant.

Yours sincerely,
Morijah d’Hanguest
CEO of Ishtirak d’Hanguest
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#49 - 2013-10-02 11:41:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Morijah d'Hanguest wrote:
In the Name of the Lord


Ms Mithra,

thank you for your explanations and comments.

1.) See 3.)
2.) The requirements to address Her Grace according to protocol and custom, are unrelated to her desires and wishes, or that of other parties.
3.) Although our lawyers point out that the juridical questions pertaining to the actual legal relationship between Kingdom and Empire are complex and remain largely unanswered, it is our legal opinion that since June 7th YC111 royal decrees are lodged at the Privy Council and the Imperial Chancellery, and are stored in their databases. The Privy Council holds authority over you, Ms Mithra, and His Majesty King Khanid II holds a seat under the name of “Lord Councillor Khanid of the Khanid Kingdom”. Royal decrees related to titles and holdings of the Kingdom are of full validity in the Empire.

As you have found yourself by consulting the Book of Records in Dam Torsad, Her Grace’s titles were granted by royal decree and have been in our family for generations uncountable. Your personal stance in this matter is as relevant as you were to opine that an elephant is not an elephant.

Yours sincerely,
Morijah d’Hanguest
CEO of Ishtirak d’Hanguest


And since the Theology Council also holds a seat on the Privy Council, I assume that you accept its authority on religious matters?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Morijah d'Hanguest
Ishtirak d'Hanguest
#50 - 2013-10-02 12:08:57 UTC
In the Name of the Lord


Admiral Blake,

the Privy Council is an imperial, not a royal institution. Whoever holds a seat there possesses authority of varying degrees in the Empire, yet the Kingdom remains in independent entity regardless of His Majesty being recognised as a member of the Privy Council. Thus we were arguing solely on the basis of the imperial interpretation of law and its political framework. The opinion of the Kingdom is by no means touched, when discussing the aforementioned points.

Yours sincerely,
Morijah d’Hanguest
CEO of Ishtirak d’Hanguest
Odelya d'Hanguest
Order of St. Severian
#51 - 2013-10-02 21:40:33 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
As you are no doubt aware, the corp that I belong to has a ban on duels. And on top of that, I'm certainly not going to duel with a member of a supposedly allied corporation.
I was aware that you are a sissy. But I wasn’t aware that you would even hide behind some stupid corp rules. And if you are certainly not going to exchange gun fire in form of an honourable duel with a member of an allied corporation, then why do you keep insulting this very member? I will fight for the Reclaiming until my last clone malfunctions, so who are you to ******* lecture me?


If you don't want me to insult you, then perhaps you should stop insulting not only the basis of my beliefs but everything that I stand for.

And I'll let you in on a little secret - I've gone easy on you so far out of respect for your corporation.
I feel threatened, Admiral!

If you would respect my corporation less, would you actually undock? And just for the record: it wasn’t me who started the insults. And what exactly is it that you stand for? Making a mockery of the Empire’s values by serving as the prime example of sycophancy and making announcement every now and then? Let’s be honest: that I placed a bounty of some thousand ISK on your head was the most exciting event in your last months!

Down with this sort of thing!
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#52 - 2013-10-03 06:02:51 UTC
Every pilot deserves some rest, especially those who have been around for ten years. I'm not sure why Blake being out of pod makes his views any less meaningful. He's certainly done enough for the Empire over the years, I'd wager more than you have.

-Eran
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#53 - 2013-10-03 07:02:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Makkal Hanaya
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Makkal Hanaya wrote:

I reserve the right to do so.


And if you so wish to exercise that right, feel free to do so. However, I do recall that in your faith, God and God alone passes final judgement, not man.


God passes final judgment.

But, you know, it's a big cluster. There are trillions of us. I'm just trying to help out. Pick up the slack, as it were.

Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:
Royal is used to qualify the Khanid Kingdom. Khanid—without the qualifier—might be confused for a Khanid holder in the Empire. Since my dear sister is a lawyer herself she wouldn't make mistake.

You're correct that the counterpart to Imperial nobility would be Royal nobility, but for a statement made to avoid confusion, it serves poorly. I tend to use Kingdom nobility.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Cyrus Alabel
Azure Wrath
#54 - 2013-10-03 15:17:39 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

[But] I am a soldier, not a murderer.


A soldier is just a murderer with the government's blessing.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2013-10-03 22:18:17 UTC
Makkal Hanaya wrote:


God passes final judgment.

But, you know, it's a big cluster. There are trillions of us. I'm just trying to help out. Pick up the slack, as it were.



Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you believe that God is omnipotent? Surely if God was, then he wouldn't have any problem passing judgement on trillions of people simultaneously. Even if he wasn't, surely he wouldn't rely on mere humans to help him out considering how fallible we are.

Even though I'm not of faith, I consider that better than selective faith which would be only adhering to it when it's convenient for you. It's incredibly dishonest and if your God truly exists, then he's judging you for it.

Regardless of religious views, my point still stands. It's truly ridiculous to judge a woman's entire character and being over something comparatively innocent to what we've probably done as well as other things that she has done. Simply put, it's not in our place to do so.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#56 - 2013-10-03 23:48:37 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Makkal Hanaya wrote:


God passes final judgment.

But, you know, it's a big cluster. There are trillions of us. I'm just trying to help out. Pick up the slack, as it were.



Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you believe that God is omnipotent? Surely if God was, then he wouldn't have any problem passing judgement on trillions of people simultaneously. Even if he wasn't, surely he wouldn't rely on mere humans to help him out considering how fallible we are.

Even though I'm not of faith, I consider that better than selective faith which would be only adhering to it when it's convenient for you. It's incredibly dishonest and if your God truly exists, then he's judging you for it.

Regardless of religious views, my point still stands. It's truly ridiculous to judge a woman's entire character and being over something comparatively innocent to what we've probably done as well as other things that she has done. Simply put, it's not in our place to do so.


I seem to be on both sides of you, Fred. On the one hand, God's omnipotence is worked throughout the system. He doesn't usually reach in and rummage around in the cluster, He uses us as instruments of His will. Thus it is His will that we are having this conversation, for what purpose is left to us to discern.

On the other hand, I agree with the basic premise that you shouldn't judge someone completely by one past action. Truly, in a cluster full of heinous atrocities of blood sacrifice, genocide, and warfare, I don't think making a dirty movie rates very high on the outrage meter. I certainly don't think it necessarily means you can't make a rational judgement call about multiculturalism.

Obviously, I disagree with that judgement, but I don't think that the reason to find it questionable rests with her past film credits.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#57 - 2013-10-04 00:13:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Makkal Hanaya
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Makkal Hanaya wrote:


God passes final judgment.

But, you know, it's a big cluster. There are trillions of us. I'm just trying to help out. Pick up the slack, as it were.



Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you believe that God is omnipotent? Surely if God was, then he wouldn't have any problem passing judgement on trillions of people simultaneously. Even if he wasn't, surely he wouldn't rely on mere humans to help him out considering how fallible we are.

It was a joke.

Quote:
Even though I'm not of faith, I consider that better than selective faith which would be only adhering to it when it's convenient for you. It's incredibly dishonest and if your God truly exists, then he's judging you for it.

I am unsure what you mean by 'selective faith.'

If God is judging me at the moment, I don't think earning your disapproval would get me in too much trouble.

Quote:
Regardless of religious views, my point still stands. It's truly ridiculous to judge a woman's entire character and being over something comparatively innocent to what we've probably done as well as other things that she has done. Simply put, it's not in our place to do so.

I haven't starred in any skinflicks. I didn't realize that in Gallente culture, making pornographic holovids was 'comparatively innocent.'

You're right that you shouldn't judge her though as she's Khanid nobility. But didn't you say you were nobility of a sort? Whatever the case, she likely outranks you by a fair margin.

No worries, I'll pick up your slack too.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2013-10-04 06:39:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Constantin Baracca wrote:


I seem to be on both sides of you, Fred. On the one hand, God's omnipotence is worked throughout the system. He doesn't usually reach in and rummage around in the cluster, He uses us as instruments of His will. Thus it is His will that we are having this conversation, for what purpose is left to us to discern.

On the other hand, I agree with the basic premise that you shouldn't judge someone completely by one past action. Truly, in a cluster full of heinous atrocities of blood sacrifice, genocide, and warfare, I don't think making a dirty movie rates very high on the outrage meter. I certainly don't think it necessarily means you can't make a rational judgement call about multiculturalism.

Obviously, I disagree with that judgement, but I don't think that the reason to find it questionable rests with her past film credits.


Of course, your faith believes that God gave humanity free will and it's ultimately up to us how we use this gift. Sure I suppose he can use us as tools and instruments in the same way us Gallenteans are so fond of AIs and Drones, but I it really doesn't make sense to me for God to rely on people to project his judgement. Then again, I don't believe in God and only know what I know about your faith through my own research as religious beliefs of all kind do fascinate me even if I don't follow them.

If I'm having dinner with a serial killer, I'm going to use a rational judgement to assume that he might just take the fork and shove it in my neck. On the other hand I'm not going to take this knowledge and identify him only by his crime. I've killed plenty of people, all of us capsuleers have, the only reason why this man went to jail and not me is because my killing was within the law, which doesn't make it any morally better in most cases.

I form my opinion of people the way they act and present themselves. This lady is a very nationalistic member of the Khanid royal family, not an adult holoreel star. She may have made such a film, but to judge her entire character based on something so trivial is ludicrous.

Makkal Hanaya wrote:


I am unsure what you mean by 'selective faith.'

If God is judging me at the moment, I don't think earning your disapproval would get me in too much trouble.

I haven't starred in any skinflicks. I didn't realize that in Gallente culture, making pornographic holovids was 'comparatively innocent.'

You're right that you shouldn't judge her though as she's Khanid nobility. But didn't you say you were nobility of a sort? Whatever the case, she likely outranks you by a fair margin.

No worries, I'll pick up your slack too.


I explained it earlier, "selective faith" is when you only apply the principles of your religion when it's convenient for you. You are judging a woman's entire being and life based on one act, yet believe in an omnipotent God who he and he alone passes final judgement on our souls. But alas, you're going to overlook that little fact right now because it's doesn't fit your agenda.

An example not involving you would be a holder who believes that God is merciful and forgives those who ask for forgiveness, yet brutally beats his slaves when the make mistakes. Later, when arrested for some crime, lets say fraud, the holder begins pleading to the judge for forgiveness and to lessen his punishment because "that's what God would do" despite not adhering to this doctrine earlier.

What you're doing is similar to that of the holder. If you haven't been judged by others before, then you will in the future, it's an inevitable part of human life. And as a member of the faith, you'll probably be saying to yourself or even to them "I don't care what you people think, it's up to God to judge me!"

In the Federation, we believe that in a galaxy of people who drink the blood of orphans, slaughter entire communities for no apparent reason, and murder and butcher by the millions or billions, having a little fun on camera isn't so bad by comparison.

I am of nobility yet my father and I have rejected it simply because we believe that if we are living in a society that tries to pass itself off as equal, there shouldn't be any preferential treatment over which family you were born into. Nobility is something I find silly; all that power, wealth, and fame with nothing being done to deserve it other than being born. I'm suppose to be just some Gauron lord or whatever, so she probably does outrank me, I don't care. If I consider my own royal status stupid and irrelevant, then what more for another person?

Feel free to pick up my slack, I don't believe in God so it probably wouldn't hurt having someone to keep an eye on me. Whether or not I take your judgement into consideration or respect it is an entirely different story.

You on the other hand do believe in God, keep your judgmental nature in mind, for if your faith actually turns out to be correct, then God sure as hell will.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#59 - 2013-10-04 07:26:45 UTC
"Her Grace"? Seriously?

While her titles may make for amusing dinner chat in Khanid space I wouldn't advise the Exhausted Cherry Blossom to come to Lustrevik seeking to lay claim to any real estate or ordering any of us around. I guarantee that her (brief) visit would not end well.


Sincerely,

Talon Cmdr. Anabella Rella
Tribal Liberation Force, Dame Commander of Konora, Patroness of Pator, Heiress to the fortune of Clan Rella, Explosive Ordnance Specialist, Defender of Puppies and Connoisseur of Distilled Spirits made from Grain Mash

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#60 - 2013-10-04 12:18:39 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
"Her Grace"? Seriously?

While her titles may make for amusing dinner chat in Khanid space I wouldn't advise the Exhausted Cherry Blossom to come to Lustrevik seeking to lay claim to any real estate or ordering any of us around. I guarantee that her (brief) visit would not end well.


Sincerely,

Talon Cmdr. Anabella Rella
Tribal Liberation Force, Dame Commander of Konora, Patroness of Pator, Heiress to the fortune of Clan Rella, Explosive Ordnance Specialist, Defender of Puppies and Connoisseur of Distilled Spirits made from Grain Mash


By the by, can you recommend a good brand of whiskey? I've only ever been a cognac man, but I'm going to an anniversary celebration and need to bring a good bottle. I've never been much of a whiskey man, but I'm hoping to turn things around.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26