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[Rubicon] Electronic Attack Ships

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Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#141 - 2013-10-03 12:06:57 UTC
Celas Inouye wrote:
Chessur wrote:


Play better then? Stop spouting off crap.

Just warp away?

So trying to confirm that you are telling me to just run away from fights, and to somehow play better vs a ship that can web we from insane distances where most ships struggle to even reach? Yah... I too love flying only RLM cerbs for the foreseeable future.


Confirming. It's called adapting, there, Skippy. I can agree that the ranges on these EAFs could do with a bit of lowering (Half their range bonuses that have been suggested and play with it from there), but other than that, yes. Run away, regroup and come up with a plan to deal with ships like this. Or you could always run away as you suggested. Isn't that what you do to griffins already?


Griffens get FOF missiled, or I can actually shoot / kill them. They are not sitting out at suer extreme ranges.

And no you may not call me skippy / adapting. There is no way to adapt to a hyena when you are solo / super small gang. Those things are going to be fuckign nightmares. Again, solo / small gang pilot running away and 're-grouping' as advice. WTF kind of idea is that?

Gypsio III wrote:
Chessur wrote:

Tell me, other than a CN RLM cerb- how are you hitting that hyena, moving around 5K+ From 60K out? Because really, if you can name any ship- please do so. The cerb is going to struggle to apply full DPS at that point with out some crash on board.

Play better then? Stop spouting off crap.

Just warp away?

So trying to confirm that you are telling me to just run away from fights, and to somehow play better vs a ship that can web we from insane distances where most ships struggle to even reach? Yah... I too love flying only RLM cerbs for the foreseeable future.


If you're soloing in a light , relative short-ranged ship, the situation is no different to a Rapier arriving on grid at range. Presumably you have some method of dealing with that rather than just crying on the forums?

If you're in gang, then just kill it or damp it. Rail Deimos, for a start.



A rapier is not going to be cruising around at 5KS+ I can also shoot and at least kill a rapier, my ships are faster than a rapier. Yes they are still huge problems, however they can be dealt with. But the hyena alone.... is way faster than my ship, and has absurd range, sig tank, and web rage. The game needs fewer recons, not more.

How is this crying? I am pointing out blood facts here. FFS I can 100% promise you that anyone disagreeing with me, has no appreciable pvp experience at all. Stop talking out of your ass. A rail deimos? You do realize how **** the tracking is on that thing right?

Damp it? Ok so the only way to counter EAF's is to fly with more EAF's than the gang your fighting?

Sounds like some fun solo v blob / small gang v blob gameplay to me.

Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I like all the 'Hyena is OP!' arguments that include faction webs and Skirmish links.


there is no reason not to include it. If you don't fit faction webs to your rapier, you are either bad at game and poor- or bad at game.... and just bad.
Ong
Lumberjack Commandos
#142 - 2013-10-03 12:10:08 UTC
Roime wrote:
I feel sorry for you if that's the small gang pvp you have settle for.



Not the only, we do it all, buts its a part of it.
Dex Slim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2013-10-03 12:10:24 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
I'd actually like to see any of these regularly beat out an ishkur, dramiel, or daredevil.

This proposed iteration of the EAF's will definitely have fun rolling all over 'lower end' frigs, but I'm seriously skeptical of how well they'll do against the higher end, long standing dominant frig's like the Daredevil/Dramiel, Ishkur/Harpy/Hawk.



Yeah, the occasional upset(read Imicus vs Enyo) happens, but I don't think these will be able to routinely 1v1 most the AF's and faction frigs.


It takes two neut cycles (which takes under 8 seconds overheated and with low-grade talismans) from a maximum range of 32km for a Sentinel to cap out any frigate/assault ship. After that it's game over for any ship not able to return damage. You'll just tracking disrupt ships with projectile weapons so they won't hit you or the drones, and well, all hybrid/laser boats will be sitting ducks after they are drained.

I'd say this ship is quite overpowered.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#144 - 2013-10-03 12:13:10 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
If these things go live as is, the only viable ship to solo around in will be a RLML Cerberus.
Seriously. Increasing their range was the wrong idea.


Absolutely.

The right thing to do was to nerf their ewar abilities, and buff their combat abilities. Turn them into massively toned down AT ships basically.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#145 - 2013-10-03 12:15:46 UTC
Necharo Rackham wrote:
A rail deimos is going to have trouble tracking a frig at that distance, let alone one going at close to 5K (which means it can keep transversal up while chasing) with a sig radius bonus - a rapier won't have those advantages.


Yeah, a linked Hyena will do 5 km/s with a 150 m sig (links in being overpowered non-shocker?), if I altered it right in EFT. That's very hard for a Deimos to track if it's being orbited, but in a small gang situation, keeping up transversal on all hostiles becomes trickier.

While a RLML Cerb will certainly be the best damage counter to these frigs, I'm not convinced that they represent something new and terrible in typical small gang environments. They're pretty vulnerable to even unbonused damping, for example.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2013-10-03 12:16:12 UTC
Chessur wrote:


there is no reason not to include it. If you don't fit faction webs to your rapier, you are either bad at game and poor- or bad at game.... and just bad.


completely different to faction web a rapier and ahyena. Hyena will die 50 times more. Its can be easily insta popped. You woudl be wastign isk most of time using faction webs on it.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#147 - 2013-10-03 12:18:44 UTC
Or just nerf the eafs and then let them use ewar or ewar immune ships Twisted
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#148 - 2013-10-03 12:19:41 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Chessur wrote:


there is no reason not to include it. If you don't fit faction webs to your rapier, you are either bad at game and poor- or bad at game.... and just bad.


completely different to faction web a rapier and ahyena. Hyena will die 50 times more. Its can be easily insta popped. You woudl be wastign isk most of time using faction webs on it.


Hyena is probably just as survivable as a huginn, since it goes twice as fast and has a third of the sig
Fetish McButt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#149 - 2013-10-03 12:22:44 UTC
Chessur wrote:


Griffens get FOF missiled, or I can actually shoot / kill them. They are not sitting out at suer extreme ranges.

And no you may not call me skippy / adapting. There is no way to adapt to a hyena when you are solo / super small gang. Those things are going to be fuckign nightmares. Again, solo / small gang pilot running away and 're-grouping' as advice. WTF kind of idea is that?




FA super small gang = 150 dudes. Yes, I know its difficult to live in eve like this. Anything with med longrange guns and fast lock can kill the hyena even before it gets its speed up. HTFU
Alsyth
#150 - 2013-10-03 12:23:16 UTC
Very good but:
-Kitsune speed?
-Keres damp range?
Ong
Lumberjack Commandos
#151 - 2013-10-03 12:23:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ong
Maybe tern them into pure support ships,

Hyena gets Target painter bonus

Keres gets Damp bonus

Kitsune gets ECM bonus

Sentinel gets Tracking disruptor bonus

Tackle bonus's are op
Gorski Car
#152 - 2013-10-03 12:30:11 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
If these things go live as is, the only viable ship to solo around in will be a RLML Cerberus.
Seriously. Increasing their range was the wrong idea.


I might actually agree with Prometheus for once. But then again anyone not abusing a RLML Cerb right now is a bad.

Collect this post
Kesthely
State War Academy
Caldari State
#153 - 2013-10-03 12:31:27 UTC
Ehm i think i made a mistake there:

Quote:
I would just like to point out that a 20% reduction per level at all level V's means that the cycle is literally 0 seconds, so instantaneous and merely a lockbreaker effect.


What i ment was halving wich would result in 10% reduction per level.

a 10 second jam cycle for the kitsune instead of a 20 second in my eyes at least makes a lot more sense. Editing Original post.
Bloody2k
SKULL AND B0NES
#154 - 2013-10-03 12:37:46 UTC
Whats about an special immunity:

Sentinal(Amarr)
against theyr own special - NEUT/NOS
or
against theyr counterpart - Target Painter


Kitsue (Caldari)
against theyr own special - ECM
or
against theyr counterpart - Dampener


Keres (Gallente)
against theyr own special - Dampener
or
against theyr counterpart - ECM

Hyena (Minmatar)
against theyr own special - Target Painter
or
against theyr counterpart - NEUT/NOS
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#155 - 2013-10-03 12:39:17 UTC
Hmm.

I'm in favor of increasing survivability instead of increasing ANYTHING RELATED TO ELECTRONIC WARFARE. The Hyena would be an exception.

note: the Keres, Kitsune and Sentinel have always worked well and do NOT really much done.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2013-10-03 12:42:34 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Chessur wrote:


there is no reason not to include it. If you don't fit faction webs to your rapier, you are either bad at game and poor- or bad at game.... and just bad.


completely different to faction web a rapier and ahyena. Hyena will die 50 times more. Its can be easily insta popped. You woudl be wastign isk most of time using faction webs on it.


Hyena is probably just as survivable as a huginn, since it goes twice as fast and has a third of the sig



Still too vulnerable to simple things as artie ruptures at very start of engagements etc... rapiers are much harder to vanihs from battlefield sicne they usually live long enoguh for logis to save them.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Rab See
Stellar Dynamics
#157 - 2013-10-03 13:27:16 UTC
Bloody2k wrote:
Whats about an special immunity:

Sentinal(Amarr)
against theyr own special - NEUT/NOS
or
against theyr counterpart - Target Painter


Kitsue (Caldari)
against theyr own special - ECM
or
against theyr counterpart - Dampener


Keres (Gallente)
against theyr own special - Dampener
or
against theyr counterpart - ECM

Hyena (Minmatar)
against theyr own special - Target Painter
or
against theyr counterpart - NEUT/NOS


LOL - for counterpart immunity - yes - Amarr would get nothing. Nobody uses painters except Golems in missions. And I suspect it would be more than welcome for Hyena as a fast tackler to avoid Neuts. Its a good idea, but the Hyena is still gimped with painters - the crappest of bonuses.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#158 - 2013-10-03 13:40:34 UTC
you would be surprised how stronk and useful this bonus is (dreadblapping).

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Rab See
Stellar Dynamics
#159 - 2013-10-03 13:48:18 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
you would be surprised how stronk and useful this bonus is (dreadblapping).


Yup - the whole of eve must be rejoicing - everyone BUY hyena NOW, its the new WTFPownMobile. Get out your dreads and find something to blap.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#160 - 2013-10-03 13:53:45 UTC
Hyenas are going to be THE thing to run capital escalations, you read it here first.

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