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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#281 - 2013-10-02 22:57:39 UTC
Samara Anninen wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
What's really disappointing is that the community is stuck in some old mindset that "anything different = overpowered" or that anything expensive is suddenly overpowered.

This is NOT overpowered. If anything, the frigate needs a buff in damage.


They are different, they don't have analogs (why one should train gallente/amarr skills to use the only ones cloaky exploration damage dealers?) and they overlap with CovOps - why would you ever need one with these beasts?

So, they don't belong to one of the currently existing ship classes which makes them what is called "a fifth wheel of the cart" because they are somewhere between CovOps and usual damage dealing ships.


CovOps are better than the SOE ships, more scan strength and bigger role bonus to virus strength.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#282 - 2013-10-02 22:57:52 UTC
Samara Anninen wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
What's really disappointing is that the community is stuck in some old mindset that "anything different = overpowered" or that anything expensive is suddenly overpowered.

This is NOT overpowered. If anything, the frigate needs a buff in damage.


They are different, they don't have analogs (why one should train gallente/amarr skills to use the only ones cloaky exploration damage dealers?) and they overlap with CovOps - why would you ever need one with these beasts?

So, they don't belong to one of the currently existing ship classes which makes them what is called "a fifth wheel of the cart" because they are somewhere between CovOps and usual damage dealing ships.


Pirate ships ARE supposed to be a bit better than T2 ships. Analogues will come, give it time.

Just because a ship class is new does not make it overpowered. Plenty of things can defeat these easily.
Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#283 - 2013-10-02 22:59:40 UTC
I think that limiting the ship to laser use only is a good thing (by bonuses to lasers or simple restriction).

It's not a generalist type ship like the Gnosis. It specifically represents two factions and must have their respective weapon systems a.k.a. Drones and Lazors. For the ones bitching about "it's unfair" - train the skills needed or pick another ship that suits your skill set better.

1. Needs ANY bonus to lasers
2. Another high slot would be extremely useful. As long as the intent is for this to be long deployment type/explorer craft with emphasis on drones, another high is a must. Yes,w e have the big drone bay, but repairing the drones on the go is very important as well.

(Ice) Miner for life.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#284 - 2013-10-02 23:04:21 UTC
Eko Fromtv wrote:
repairing the drones on the go is very important as well.

Keep a single light armor repair drone in your bay, same thing you do in a pilgrim.
Samara Anninen
#285 - 2013-10-02 23:05:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Samara Anninen
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Samara Anninen wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
What's really disappointing is that the community is stuck in some old mindset that "anything different = overpowered" or that anything expensive is suddenly overpowered.

This is NOT overpowered. If anything, the frigate needs a buff in damage.


They are different, they don't have analogs (why one should train gallente/amarr skills to use the only ones cloaky exploration damage dealers?) and they overlap with CovOps - why would you ever need one with these beasts?

So, they don't belong to one of the currently existing ship classes which makes them what is called "a fifth wheel of the cart" because they are somewhere between CovOps and usual damage dealing ships.


Pirate ships ARE supposed to be a bit better than T2 ships. Analogues will come, give it time.

Just because a ship class is new does not make it overpowered. Plenty of things can defeat these easily.


But all current pirate ships are just "updated" t1 ships by both skill prerequisites and bonuses. These ones are basically "updated" t2 (by bonuses - CovOps) but with usual pirate prerequisites (racial t1 skills).
This makes me want to born Amarr/Gallente :3

Anyway, its not a good way to design games by adding something which benefits some races over others like in this case - basically new class of ships without counterparts from other two races. So, maybe they should be simply delayed till this counterparts are developed.

Intelligence Bot For FW Militia Chat
Jaz Antollare
UrAnus Probing Squad
#286 - 2013-10-02 23:05:31 UTC
Make that scan bonus better than t1 and worse than t2, it would be fair imo.

But the viruses +10 hell-no. OOOOR just give them those damn +10 and give the t2 scan frigates +15!:3
Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#287 - 2013-10-02 23:06:41 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Eko Fromtv wrote:
repairing the drones on the go is very important as well.

Keep a single light armor repair drone in your bay, same thing you do in a pilgrim.


Useful after a fight. I'd rather keep my dps at 100% and rep it on the go.

(Ice) Miner for life.
Vincent Ageon
Phoenix Administration
#288 - 2013-10-02 23:08:29 UTC
After seeing the 1000dpsShocked blaster fit shield cruiser, I'm inclined to JUST use this ship in PvP. Cloak, approach, 0, and kill. Ogres (either a second set to say F* you. If they kill one, woopty friggen do) and Blaster II with void.

If this was meant as an exploration cruiser for long deployments, I'm not seeing it. Going by everyones suggestions and the bonuses as is, I see drone version of the Vigilant that can cloak on top of that.

Thought the idea was exploration with some teeth? I see lots of teeth with a little bit of explo.


Increase cargo bay, by quite a bit, drop the drone bay size to say.. 200? an decrease the bandwidth to 100. Its a CRUISER. Not a battle cruiser. Not a battle ship. Its a long deployment explo cruiser. Even if you strictly focused on that people are going to break it for Pvp so theres no worries there.

The mobile fitting array will take care of any needs regarding swapping out drones. This will be an essential NEED for "long deployments" so why not focus around the fact that one is going to be carried?

Keep hearing people cry "no laser bonuses? wtf? Needs more pew pew." I saw, wheres my hybrid turret bonus? I could use more dps on top that 1000. Go home. Roll
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#289 - 2013-10-02 23:11:34 UTC
Vincent Ageon wrote:
After seeing the 1000dpsShocked blaster fit shield cruiser, I'm inclined to JUST use this ship in PvP. Cloak, approach, 0, and kill. Ogres (either a second set to say F* you. If they kill one, woopty friggen do) and Blaster II with void.
Roll


Have fun with that lock time delay and lack of tank.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#290 - 2013-10-02 23:12:35 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Vincent Ageon wrote:


Keep hearing people cry "no laser bonuses? wtf? Needs more pew pew." I saw, wheres my hybrid turret bonus? I could use more dps on top that 1000. Go home. Roll

That's kinda why people are saying it needs a proper laser bonus. Roll

But hell, If it releases like this I'll use it as a cloaky blaster boat like everyone else.

Nyancat Audeles wrote:


Have fun with that lock time delay and lack of tank.

Lock delay doesn't seem to stop all of the cloaky Lokis, Pilgrims (although these are extinct after the npc AI changes), and Proteii.

As for tank, 35k ehp is more than enough when your packing 1000+ dps.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#291 - 2013-10-02 23:13:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
CCP Rise wrote:
A small change in the original post - The Astero has 20% drone hp per level, not 10% drone hp/tracking. This was actually just a mistake I made when copying the post over by grabbing an older version of the bonuses. Sorry about that.

In general there's a lot of good feedback coming in already of course and I'm already imagining and beginning to discuss version two with the CSM and Fozzie etc. (looking closely at the drone bandwidth/bay, CPU situation and hacking capability of the cruiser especially) but I want to give plenty of time for us to think it through and let you guys discuss in detail before any changes are made.

In the mean time keep the feedback coming and we'll give you updates as they come.


That frigate will be really great to use! Smile

You should make the cruiser the bigger brother to the Astero. Drop the lazer capacitor bonus, give it 20% to drone damage/ehp and in addition, a revised slot layout of: H/4, M/4, L/6, T/3.

This would basically give you a tougher Astero with two utility highs, which could be used to fit salvagers, tractor beams, remote reps or drone link augmenters.

I hope that a battle ship version in being considered to complete the set but if so, i expect it to come after black ops ships get rebalanced.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#292 - 2013-10-02 23:13:24 UTC
Vincent Ageon wrote:

Keep hearing people cry "no laser bonuses? wtf? Needs more pew pew." I saw, wheres my hybrid turret bonus? I could use more dps on top that 1000. Go home. Roll

Most dont give 2-***** about a turret bonus, they just dont want a laser bonus on the ship.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Vincent Ageon
Phoenix Administration
#293 - 2013-10-02 23:14:14 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Vincent Ageon wrote:
After seeing the 1000dpsShocked blaster fit shield cruiser, I'm inclined to JUST use this ship in PvP. Cloak, approach, 0, and kill. Ogres (either a second set to say F* you. If they kill one, woopty friggen do) and Blaster II with void.
Roll


Have fun with that lock time delay and lack of tank.



"Roll Bonus: Can fit Covert Ops Cloak" <---
Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#294 - 2013-10-02 23:14:46 UTC
Vincent Ageon wrote:
After seeing the 1000dpsShocked blaster fit shield cruiser, I'm inclined to JUST use this ship in PvP. Cloak, approach, 0, and kill. Ogres (either a second set to say F* you. If they kill one, woopty friggen do) and Blaster II with void.

If this was meant as an exploration cruiser for long deployments, I'm not seeing it. Going by everyones suggestions and the bonuses as is, I see drone version of the Vigilant that can cloak on top of that.

Thought the idea was exploration with some teeth? I see lots of teeth with a little bit of explo.


Increase cargo bay, by quite a bit, drop the drone bay size to say.. 200? an decrease the bandwidth to 100. Its a CRUISER. Not a battle cruiser. Not a battle ship. Its a long deployment explo cruiser. Even if you strictly focused on that people are going to break it for Pvp so theres no worries there.

The mobile fitting array will take care of any needs regarding swapping out drones. This will be an essential NEED for "long deployments" so why not focus around the fact that one is going to be carried?

Keep hearing people cry "no laser bonuses? wtf? Needs more pew pew." I saw, wheres my hybrid turret bonus? I could use more dps on top that 1000. Go home. Roll


Yes, keep nerfing it and expect it to deliver on promises. It needs the big drone bay if it is to fulfill it's goal.

So restricting it to lasers will be an excellent choice. You won't have to worry about that blaster DPS anymore :)

Giving it a hybrid bonus would strengthen the Gallente side too much. It already has drone bonuses.

(Ice) Miner for life.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#295 - 2013-10-02 23:15:42 UTC
Vincent Ageon wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Vincent Ageon wrote:
After seeing the 1000dpsShocked blaster fit shield cruiser, I'm inclined to JUST use this ship in PvP. Cloak, approach, 0, and kill. Ogres (either a second set to say F* you. If they kill one, woopty friggen do) and Blaster II with void.
Roll


Have fun with that lock time delay and lack of tank.



"Roll Bonus: Can fit Covert Ops Cloak" <---

When did it get 100% reduction to cloaking device targeting delay.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#296 - 2013-10-02 23:17:20 UTC
Eko Fromtv wrote:
Vincent Ageon wrote:
After seeing the 1000dpsShocked blaster fit shield cruiser, I'm inclined to JUST use this ship in PvP. Cloak, approach, 0, and kill. Ogres (either a second set to say F* you. If they kill one, woopty friggen do) and Blaster II with void.

If this was meant as an exploration cruiser for long deployments, I'm not seeing it. Going by everyones suggestions and the bonuses as is, I see drone version of the Vigilant that can cloak on top of that.

Thought the idea was exploration with some teeth? I see lots of teeth with a little bit of explo.


Increase cargo bay, by quite a bit, drop the drone bay size to say.. 200? an decrease the bandwidth to 100. Its a CRUISER. Not a battle cruiser. Not a battle ship. Its a long deployment explo cruiser. Even if you strictly focused on that people are going to break it for Pvp so theres no worries there.

The mobile fitting array will take care of any needs regarding swapping out drones. This will be an essential NEED for "long deployments" so why not focus around the fact that one is going to be carried?

Keep hearing people cry "no laser bonuses? wtf? Needs more pew pew." I saw, wheres my hybrid turret bonus? I could use more dps on top that 1000. Go home. Roll


Yes, keep nerfing it and expect it to deliver on promises. It needs the big drone bay if it is to fulfill it's goal.

So restricting it to lasers will be an excellent choice. You won't have to worry about that blaster DPS anymore :)

Giving it a hybrid bonus would strengthen the Gallente side too much. It already has drone bonuses.

Amarr uses drones also, so it is a shared trait. If it gets lasers it is pushed too much to the Amarr side.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#297 - 2013-10-02 23:17:55 UTC
Eko Fromtv wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Eko Fromtv wrote:
repairing the drones on the go is very important as well.

Keep a single light armor repair drone in your bay, same thing you do in a pilgrim.


Useful after a fight. I'd rather keep my dps at 100% and rep it on the go.


The massive drone bay on SOE ships means you can have every flight of drones you want AND rep drones.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#298 - 2013-10-02 23:18:16 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Vincent Ageon wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Vincent Ageon wrote:
After seeing the 1000dpsShocked blaster fit shield cruiser, I'm inclined to JUST use this ship in PvP. Cloak, approach, 0, and kill. Ogres (either a second set to say F* you. If they kill one, woopty friggen do) and Blaster II with void.
Roll


Have fun with that lock time delay and lack of tank.



"Roll Bonus: Can fit Covert Ops Cloak" <---

When did it get 100% reduction to cloaking device targeting delay.

When did that ever stop the cloaky loki, proteus, or pilgrim?
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#299 - 2013-10-02 23:19:59 UTC
Vincent Ageon wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Vincent Ageon wrote:
After seeing the 1000dpsShocked blaster fit shield cruiser, I'm inclined to JUST use this ship in PvP. Cloak, approach, 0, and kill. Ogres (either a second set to say F* you. If they kill one, woopty friggen do) and Blaster II with void.
Roll


Have fun with that lock time delay and lack of tank.



"Roll Bonus: Can fit Covert Ops Cloak" <---


Covops ships still have a lock time delay with a covops cloak, unless they have a -100% lock time delay... and it's a rather long delay.

As I said, have fun with that delay and lack of tank! Big smile
Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#300 - 2013-10-02 23:20:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Eko Fromtv
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Amarr uses drones also, so it is a shared trait. If it gets lasers it is pushed too much to the Amarr side.


Perfect. It will be balanced by the armour rep bonuses which are mostly a Gallente trait in this comparison.

It balances out perfectly.

(Ice) Miner for life.