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Naga is now less fail!
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#41 - 2011-11-15 23:00:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jennifer Starling
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Jennifer Starling wrote:

Thanks CCP for rendering a promising ship useless for me for no good reason.


Really, because of torps? Why the hell would you want a paper-thin glass-cannon sniper that was limited to using torps? Keeping in mind the rigs and painters necessary to get anything out of them, i'm pretty glad that ccp went the hybrid way.

I said useless for me!Blink

Not saying it's a bad ship but I can't use large hybrids (or any hybrids at all, I may consider small ones) but I have good missile skills and can fit and fly Manticores and Tengus pretty well. So I'll get an Oracle and may train large projectiles as it opens up far more useful ships.
There's just a load of people that only use missiles that miss out on an opportunity to use a nice shiny new ship now, however good or bad they may be. Not very considerate of CCP to neglect the low SP people out there.
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#42 - 2011-11-15 23:02:26 UTC
Jennifer Starling wrote:
Not saying it's a bad ship but I can't use large hybrids (or any hybrids at all, I may consider small ones).


Ok, I see where you're coming from.

On the bright side, if you had trained hybrids before now, you would have regretted it until a few weeks ago.
The Underdark
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2011-11-15 23:08:24 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
The Underdark wrote:
It's that every weapon type now has a Over-sized weapon platform except the Missiles.


Two words: Stealth Bombers.


You would deny them an updated more versatile new model simply because of a highly specialized ship?
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#44 - 2011-11-15 23:50:35 UTC
The Underdark wrote:
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
The Underdark wrote:
It's that every weapon type now has a Over-sized weapon platform except the Missiles.


Two words: Stealth Bombers.


You would deny them an updated more versatile new model simply because of a highly specialized ship?


No, not just one ship. Four ships. And tier 3 bc's are not much less specialized. They are fast glass-cannons. A bit like a bomber with no bomb launcher or cloak and more ehp.
Harkon'nyn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2011-11-16 00:13:16 UTC
I am displeased with the change.

I am a missile using pilot, and I really have no skills to speak of in hybrids. Mostly because I find their damage sub par at the ranges of most missiles. People are saying you need X, Y, Z to make torps work. I disagree. I have been testing the Naga on SiSi since it was dropped there. I would stack my Torp Naga against any hybrid fitted one any day of the week. Javelin missiles rip anything BC and smaller a new one. Rage Torps for BS sized targets, no TP needed for either one.

That all being said. There is no reason in the world, that CCP can't leave the ship with dual roles. From what I understood it had both to start with and was just fine. If this change is permanent, there are many pilots who will feel there is no need for it. And it will be relegated to a poor footnote, and rarely used. In it's previous configuration it was a versatile ship, with many uses for both sets of pilots.

Long story short: If people wanna fly fail fits, you guys who are so damn skilled, enjoy the free kills. If you wanna build the "ultimate" blaster boat, go for it, and show us missile guys how it is done. I know I would have made some noise with a torp one. People should have a choice to fit it however they wish, fail or not.

I was excited about the new ships, until this. I don't really care now.

Flame away.
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#46 - 2011-11-16 00:19:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis
Harkon'nyn wrote:
People are saying you need X, Y, Z to make torps work. I disagree.


People aren't just "saying," that. It's a fact.

Your argument that the Naga was better in split-bonus failure mode is telling. Run along and fly something else if you don't have the gunnery skills. Not all caldari ships were designed with missile-spewing in mind and I don't see you complaining about the merlin, moa, ferox, rokh, eagle, vulture, harpy, raptor (ok, even I complain about the raptor), etc.

TLDR; Caldari ships utilize missile launchers and hyrbids. In this case, it made a lot more sense to make it a hybrid ship.
Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#47 - 2011-11-16 00:44:23 UTC
It doesnt have to have split bonuses... the original stats for it had full double bonuses. This is how every split ship should be, a half bonus is sooo silly. D:

Ferox #1
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#48 - 2011-11-16 00:57:07 UTC
Kietay Ayari wrote:
It doesnt have to have split bonuses... the original stats for it had full double bonuses. This is how every split ship should be, a half bonus is sooo silly. D:


It wasn't a split ship, just a ship with two options. You could use either weapon type in exclusivity. If you want a real split weapon system fly a merlin.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2011-11-16 01:39:14 UTC
The Underdark wrote:
Arthur Frayn wrote:
The Underdark wrote:
If you want a good Hybrid ship and you already have the skills for the turrets, just train the measly skills needed to fly a gal BC..


Wrong. Gallente are drone race. Hybrids are their secondary weapon system. You're very glad I caught that one before you looked stupid.


are you joking? drones are a variety, utility item. a FEW ships specialize in them, far more Gal ships are suited for Hybrids



actually, considering how CCP isn't doing nearly enough to unsuck blasters, drones will remain the main weapon for gallente race for the time being.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2011-11-16 01:51:32 UTC
I like this change because now it's a proper little sister to the Rokh in more than just appearance, which with the hybrid changes we'll hopefully be seeing more of.
TS0
The Konvergent League
#51 - 2011-11-16 02:29:07 UTC  |  Edited by: TS0
well as having 7m sp into missiles and only 800k into gunnery i wont ever fly/buy this piece of ****....
Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#52 - 2011-11-16 03:09:40 UTC
D: how is it possible people still do not understand that these are not Tech 3 BCs but Tier 3... Also how can someone know they only cost 60m in minerals and STILL not know the difference between tech 3 and tier 3 D:

Ferox #1
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#53 - 2011-11-16 04:32:52 UTC
Lots of butt-hurt from the "I never trained gunnery," crowd. Take that midol and go to sleep honey.
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2011-11-16 04:39:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Desudes
It actually seems that CCP is learning.

It does also strike me that this way they can neglect balancing cruise & torps vs turrets. I was sad when I came back to EVE to discover torps nerfed into the ground.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Robertson Nolen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2011-11-16 04:39:26 UTC
Oh good we can't use torpedoes now What?
Relnala
Perkone
Caldari State
#56 - 2011-11-16 06:22:43 UTC
People forget that Cadari is hybrids and missile, everyone just forgets the hybrid part because the turrets themselves are terrible and the Caldari hulls that use them are even worse :p
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#57 - 2011-11-16 06:45:25 UTC
Harkon'nyn wrote:
I am displeased with the change.

I am a missile using pilot, and I really have no skills to speak of in hybrids. Mostly because I find their damage sub par at the ranges of most missiles. People are saying you need X, Y, Z to make torps work. I disagree. I have been testing the Naga on SiSi since it was dropped there. I would stack my Torp Naga against any hybrid fitted one any day of the week. Javelin missiles rip anything BC and smaller a new one. Rage Torps for BS sized targets, no TP needed for either one.

That all being said. There is no reason in the world, that CCP can't leave the ship with dual roles. From what I understood it had both to start with and was just fine. If this change is permanent, there are many pilots who will feel there is no need for it. And it will be relegated to a poor footnote, and rarely used. In it's previous configuration it was a versatile ship, with many uses for both sets of pilots.

Long story short: If people wanna fly fail fits, you guys who are so damn skilled, enjoy the free kills. If you wanna build the "ultimate" blaster boat, go for it, and show us missile guys how it is done. I know I would have made some noise with a torp one. People should have a choice to fit it however they wish, fail or not.

I was excited about the new ships, until this. I don't really care now.

Flame away.


1x Assault Frigate would clean your clock if you using 8x torps since you won't be doing any damage at the speed it moves and it's got more than enough speed and dps to catch you and kill you with your small tank. With a Hybrid using ship atleast you have a chance at killing a ship like that if you keep transversal to a minimum.

So just saying pitting a torp naga against small ships is often gonna be suicide.

It's about time hybrid users where thrown a bone.
ShadowFire15
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#58 - 2011-11-16 07:24:14 UTC
Shawn Pierce wrote:
Arthur Frayn wrote:
...Oh FINE, here you go.

Whoa ... the new ships aren't naked any more??

Request: Post several pics of each of the new ships at different angles so we can see them in all their textured glory.

My SSD doesn't have enough room for the Singularity client, otherwise I'd take a look myself.


For The People Unfortunate to have SISI. Best i could do.

Oracle 1
Oracle 2
Oracle 3


Naga 1
Naga 2
Naga 3


Tornado 1
Tornado 2
Tornado 3


Talos 1
Talos 2
Talos 3


Tornado still has quite a bit of work to be done obviously.

[i]Stan Smith had a snow storm over weekend guy was shoveling snow outside, so i shot him and mined the snow myself. concord never showed up. on an unrelated note, i have a court date next tuesday[/i]
Shawn Pierce
Live For This
#59 - 2011-11-16 08:07:20 UTC
ShadowFire15 wrote:
Oracle 1
Oracle 2
Oracle 3


Naga 1
Naga 2
Naga 3


Tornado 1
Tornado 2
Tornado 3


Talos 1
Talos 2
Talos 3

So far, Oracle and Talos are tied for the top spot appearance-wise. Once Tornado gets finished it might shove one of the others down a notch. Naga brings up the rear.

I wasn't expecting them to bring the expansion out so soon ... I won't be able to pilot any of these with T2 guns until after they are released. Oh well. Probably won't be able to buy one right away anyway...
Andrea Griffin
#60 - 2011-11-17 04:11:30 UTC
Arthur Frayn wrote:
Torp Naga vs every other tier 3 BC = dead Naga due to other BC being low sig and faster and insta-hit with their guns while torp Naga cries itself to sleep. Torp naga also useless against bigger ships that can insta-hit with guns and smaller ships that torps can't hurt. Naga cries itself to sleep again if CCP listens to your dumb opinion.

You are not smart.
Didn't your mother teach you to be nice?

I, too, would have preferred a torp or cruise boat, with a massive bonus to velocity or something like that to offset the range/delay penalties that hamper such ships. Oh well.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.