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Cap stable Tengu an oxymoron?

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Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-10-02 12:20:57 UTC
I am trying to fit a Tengu for complexes and it is difficult to get much cap time.

For example, this setup has 504 dps, 555 ehps + 80% resists, but only lasts for 1 minute 17 seconds even with the two cap rechargers. Maybe switching to a medium shield booster would be better? With a medium shield booster I can add another BCU and get dps to 565 + 2 target painters and have 5 minutes of cap, but my ehps drops to 436 which I don't think can handle 6/10 complexes.

[Tengu, Tengu low-sec complex]

Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
OnlyFleets.
#2 - 2013-10-02 12:23:24 UTC
You don't need to be cap stable and you dont need a large shield booster.

Tengu sig tanks most damage, fit for 5-6 minutes cap and then fit 4 BCUs at least 1 painter and 3 damage application rigs.

Go to town.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#3 - 2013-10-02 12:29:17 UTC
It's not an oxymoron (an oxymoron is a self-contradictory concept, like dry water or silent noise) but it's generally not a good idea.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-10-02 13:08:01 UTC
Droidster wrote:
I am trying to fit a Tengu for complexes and it is difficult to get much cap time.

For example, this setup has 504 dps, 555 ehps + 80% resists, but only lasts for 1 minute 17 seconds even with the two cap rechargers. Maybe switching to a medium shield booster would be better? With a medium shield booster I can add another BCU and get dps to 565 + 2 target painters and have 5 minutes of cap, but my ehps drops to 436 which I don't think can handle 6/10 complexes.

[Tengu, Tengu low-sec complex]

Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst




Medium booster dual amp.....will tank 8/10 as long as you don't get neuted.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#5 - 2013-10-02 13:31:49 UTC
Quote:
but my ehps drops to 436 which I don't think can handle 6/10 complexes.


Keep moving with your AB and cycle your booster as needed. Its impossible to need more than 300HP/s for a 6/10 in a 150m sig AB Tengu if you fly it properly. Blink

Also, re-specking to HAMgu will give you a much easier time in the difficulty level at hand. Here is an motivating example that costs around the same money as yours, is almost cap stable and can serve your purpose well.

[Tengu, Tengu fit]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Pith C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Pith C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
10MN Afterburner II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer

656DPS cold from T1 missiles @44km (and up to 1042DPS with T2 against large targets), 622HP/s Guristas tank for 12m+, more scan res and sensor strength and the same pricetag. You will also soon find out that you can replace the Gistum C booster for a cheaper Pithum and cycle it as much as needed in the complex without cap problems.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#6 - 2013-10-02 13:52:18 UTC
[Tengu, Citadel]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Target Painter II
10MN Afterburner II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

You can pimp it out further and run most any plex.

Not today spaghetti.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2013-10-02 14:00:47 UTC
Incidentally, a Halo set is an excellent and relatively inexpensive way of improving your Tengu's effective tank.

Snakes are even better because they add mobility, but proportionaly much more expensive.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#8 - 2013-10-02 14:09:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
Quote:

You can pimp it out further and run most any plex.

Which will take you a lot more with no damage application and that missile range. Change those CCCs, 3 are totally redundant (and with the ACR sub you have, SMCs are better anyway). Also, meta4 the TP...Blink

Malcanis wrote:
Incidentally, a Halo set is an excellent and relatively inexpensive way of improving your Tengu's effective tank.

Snakes are even better because they add mobility, but proportionaly much more expensive.

Malcanis, in your experience how do the above sets fare against a crystal set for the job at hand? I'm in the market for a Tengu PvE pirate set and was even considering nomads for LS evasion (and uber intie goodness when Rubicon comes and I survive long enough). Sorry for the OT.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#9 - 2013-10-02 14:53:34 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Quote:

You can pimp it out further and run most any plex.

Which will take you a lot more with no damage application and that missile range. Change those CCCs, 3 are totally redundant (and with the ACR sub you have, SMCs are better anyway). Also, meta4 the TP...Blink


Javelins go out to almost 50km and when you are in a 10/10 webbed down to 8 m/s you need cap stability to tank everything.

Not today spaghetti.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#10 - 2013-10-02 14:59:11 UTC
Javelins go out to 45km without any range rigs, and without rigors or TPs your missiles do much less applied damage. The more gank you have, the less tank you need to cope with a DPS spike.

You will not run a Tengu solo in a 10/10 (unless you are a friendless masochist...XD
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#11 - 2013-10-02 15:07:13 UTC
Which 6/10s are you trying to do? You're overtanked for anything but Serpentis and you're under damage for Sansha.

I have no trouble with a paper tank of 321 rat specific in the Blood 6 (and it's more or less omni tanked). Angel and Guristas wouldn't be a problem either.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#12 - 2013-10-02 15:07:46 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Javelins go out to 45km without any range rigs, and without rigors or TPs your missiles do much less applied damage. The more gank you have, the less tank you need to cope with a DPS spike.

You will not run a Tengu solo in a 10/10 (unless you are a friendless masochist...XD


Ya?

I run The Maze solo in under an hour easily.

Not today spaghetti.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#13 - 2013-10-02 16:47:23 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
Sexy Cakes wrote:
[Tengu, Citadel]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Target Painter II
10MN Afterburner II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

You can pimp it out further and run most any plex.



This is more like the fit I have used.
The differences in mine are:
I use covert/nullified
so, 3 Ballistic controls
Cloak
Large booster

I can tank anything PVE in game if I fly right. The DPS is weak and sometimes I need help killing stations/towers

I like having the giant boost when it is needed. (because sometimes it is needed)
@ the OP, Cap stable doesn't mean crap if your dead... so that's my philosophy on Large boosters vs cap stable.

I don't run the 10/10's because I am a friendless masochist, I run them solo because the kids need new shoes Cool
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#14 - 2013-10-02 20:09:07 UTC
You can fit a Tengu with 5 launchers and it will be fully cap stable with a med shield booster, Invuls and AB. You will still get over 800DPS with HAM with her too.
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-10-02 20:30:48 UTC
I am relunctant to run HAMS in complexes because of the range issue (for example there is one complex with an industructible pillar that you have to stay 50km away from to avoid its webbing), and also because HAMS are less effective against frigates. I read some recent nightmare post from someone who lost their Tengu to a cluster of elite frigates.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#16 - 2013-10-02 20:52:27 UTC
Tengu with T2 launchers the javelins can hit past 50km, rage around 30km and faction/T1s like 36km to 38km. If you have your missile skills up, HAMs really aren't that much less effective (anymore). I tested this when someone else said that, I used HMLs to kill elite frigates, took 3 volleys, then I used HAMs, took 3 volleys. Have your skills up, have a TP and the right rigs if you are worried about their effectiveness and know your enemy.
I don't even use a TP and I never really have issues with any type of targets. I can solo 10 of 10s usually with my Tengu, or my RS. Big thing is have ALL your subsystems to 5, have good to great missile and shield skills, and know your enemy.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-10-02 22:06:16 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Javelins go out to 45km without any range rigs, and without rigors or TPs your missiles do much less applied damage. The more gank you have, the less tank you need to cope with a DPS spike.

You will not run a Tengu solo in a 10/10 (unless you are a friendless masochist...XD



I have a different variant with 4 navy BCUs small SB and faction AB everything else is T2, javelins 75km, faction 49, rage 41.
More gank than it's needed for 10/10 and with perma booster running+pill at worst shields go down at 65% but you clean frigs so fast you get 100% back pretty fast.
Doing it with a buddy is funnier thou, bm wrecks and leave noobies make some isk it's also cool.

Thing is that it's perfectly possible to do it with no much problem if at all when you know what you're doing but personally don't find this very amusing unless I play with someone else and always a noobie, noobies are awesome, they can scout warp gate for you they are curious and want to learn then clean the field and ask for more.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#18 - 2013-10-02 23:50:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
I agree it is a lot more fun to do it with buddies, but like you said you don't have to. A well fit Tengu, or RS, or etc can do them solo pretty easy.

Modules:
High -
- 5 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Medium -
- Large Shield Extender II
- Shield Boost Amplifier II
- Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
- Adaptive Invulnerability Field II or Target Painter II
- Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
- Gistum C-Type 10mn Afterburner
Low -
- Ballistic Control System II
- Ballistic Control System II
- Ballistic Control System II
- Damage Control II

Rigs:
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

Subsystems:
Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Can easily tank ANY 10 of 10, or L4, watch out for neuts though.
Christyna Ishiyama
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-10-03 07:37:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Christyna Ishiyama
with 5 launchers you can have aproximately ....

1200 dps tank / 65 km range with javelins / 850 dps with rage (aproximate values - medium booster and price will be relatively high - 1,8 billions)

than you can invest less for adaptive shield booster and have only

1050 dps tank ( - 450 milions) or 1150 dps tank (-100 millions)

its basically this:
[Tengu, Tengu fit pith booster]

Damage Control II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Gist X-Type Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Gistum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Pithum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Corelum B-Type 10MN Afterburner

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II

Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix

just switching Gistum C-type adaptive invul field to have at cheaper or more expensive

and then additional possibility is to go for 6 launchers (aproximately 100 dps + / range - 10km on javelin and worse tank)
and tank with option bellow around 880 dps

[Tengu, Tengu fit pith booster]

Damage Control II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Gistum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Corelum B-Type 10MN Afterburner

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II

Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer

or somethink like that ... with price aproximately 400m cheaper ... etc ...

[Tengu, Tengu fit pith booster]

Damage Control II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Pithum B-Type Medium Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Pithum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Corelum B-Type 10MN Afterburner

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II

Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer

There is many options and you can also buy cheaper things ... So the important is how much do you want to invest. You can also take gist booster which require low power and you can easily fit more Hydraulic bays and still be cap stable.

I had also variant with 100nm burner

EDIT: everything is counter with implantants 5 rapid launch, 5 energy management, 5 HAM, 5 energy system operations....
Christyna Ishiyama
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-10-03 07:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Christyna Ishiyama
the tengu needs much lower tank than I wrote here ... But Since I once died I rather overtank it than die by "accident". I added that damage control because fourth bcu add little so it doesnt worth to take it most of the time and I will rather increase my tank by more.

I died once when elite frigates scramble me + web me and I wasnt able to kill them as fast as I need with all that BS shotting at me when I stay on one place without possibility to move.... (just 2 - 3 sec more and it will be ok - but I dont have that few sec).

btw. I died because of mine own mistake :-D (so thats how its happening most of the time). The things which I post are builds which should give you the space for "MISTAKES" :-)