These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Peace between the Empire and the Republic, a Moderate viewpoint
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#101 - 2013-10-02 09:20:42 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
I would like to be done with all of you Amarrians, if a binding enforceable peace was signed tomorrow I'd like nothing better then to never see a one of you again.

Free all my people and I become a non-threat factor for the safety of Amarrian citizens. The stench of you will take decades to wash off, having to commit myself to a life of killing was not a choice, absent your horrific slavery empire, I would have selected for myself. Nonetheless I will use everyday of this long capsuleer life to exact whatever justice I can against any of you until an enforceable peace is signed, as little as that may be in the big scheme of things, it will be relentless.


There was peace.

The Republic broke it.
There can be no lasting peace while even one Matari is held in slavery, let my people go!
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#102 - 2013-10-02 09:35:29 UTC
Ray Mitar wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
I would like to be done with all of you Amarrians, if a binding enforceable peace was signed tomorrow I'd like nothing better then to never see a one of you again.

Free all my people and I become a non-threat factor for the safety of Amarrian citizens. The stench of you will take decades to wash off, having to commit myself to a life of killing was not a choice, absent your horrific slavery empire, I would have selected for myself. Nonetheless I will use everyday of this long capsuleer life to exact whatever justice I can against any of you until an enforceable peace is signed, as little as that may be in the big scheme of things, it will be relentless.


There was peace.

The Republic broke it.
There can be no lasting peace while even one Matari is held in slavery, let my people go!


We aren't your people anymore. We haven't been for hundreds of years. Amarr is our home.

The only ones that you can truly call Matari, are those soldiers that are captured as prisoners of war and enslaved, thanks to a war you started. Rather than freeing your people, you're sending them to their chains.
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#103 - 2013-10-02 09:40:16 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
I would like to be done with all of you Amarrians, if a binding enforceable peace was signed tomorrow I'd like nothing better then to never see a one of you again.

Free all my people and I become a non-threat factor for the safety of Amarrian citizens. The stench of you will take decades to wash off, having to commit myself to a life of killing was not a choice, absent your horrific slavery empire, I would have selected for myself. Nonetheless I will use everyday of this long capsuleer life to exact whatever justice I can against any of you until an enforceable peace is signed, as little as that may be in the big scheme of things, it will be relentless.


There was peace.

The Republic broke it.
There can be no lasting peace while even one Matari is held in slavery, let my people go!


We aren't your people anymore. We haven't been for hundreds of years. Amarr is our home.

The only ones that you can truly call Matari, are those soldiers that are captured as prisoners of war and enslaved, thanks to a war you started. Rather than freeing your people, you're sending them to their chains.
Ah! Yet another turncoat .... let me guess you too are exempt from the loving soothing nurturing status of Amarrian slavery you accept for others, because you're so special right?
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2013-10-02 09:43:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Zsaryna Adrelana
How very... Quaint. Bargaining from an absolute position and expecting to be taken seriously. What can you offer in turn is the question. Put simply, that isn't how diplomacy works, bargaining from a flat absolute position meets with minimal success. You need to offer something in turn, quite simply because I would expect the Imperial government to request something in turn, if only so they have something to offer their citizens in reply.
I don't care about what my people did to yours a thousand years ago. I did, but I don't anymore.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2013-10-02 09:45:31 UTC
No, she's just a fundamentally selfish individual who's looking out for number one. Trust me on this - if there ever came proper war against the Amarr, and there was a moment where the Amarr looked likely to lose it, that moment is when you'd see Samira Kernher turn tail and flee the Empire, and it'd happen so fast they could power entire planets off the spinning heads she left in her wake.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#106 - 2013-10-02 09:46:31 UTC
Zsaryna Adrelana wrote:
How very... Quaint. Bargaining from an absolute position and expecting to be taken seriously. What can you offer in turn is the question. Put simply, that isn't how diplomacy works, bargaining from a flat absolute position meets with minimal success. You need to offer something in turn, quite simply because I would expect the Imperial government to request something in turn, if only so they have something to offer their citizens in reply.
I don't care about what my people did to yours a thousand years ago. I did, but I don't anymore.
Yawn! Is that really the best you have to post? Try again, harder.
Shiori Shaishi
Doomheim
#107 - 2013-10-02 09:46:59 UTC
Slaver Filth wrote:
Could you tell me the story of how it feels to lose six ships and be podded seven times in one day? [...]

I am a pilot of woefully limited combat experience and I would be fascinated to hear the details [...]

There is no doubt in my mind that if you'd bother to undock and attempt to engage other capsuleers, you'd very soon have far more vivid, first-hand account of the matter.
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2013-10-02 09:50:55 UTC
So do you have a serious answer to the question.
What can you as a republic offer the Empire for us to consider releasing our slaves to you?
What you're doing at the moment, saying 'well we will kill you and your family unless you stop' sort of hardens the issue. For instance, my caring about the slavery issue was limited, indeed I was open to an agreement being reached with the Matari. Then something happened and I changed my mind.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#109 - 2013-10-02 09:58:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Ray Mitar wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
I would like to be done with all of you Amarrians, if a binding enforceable peace was signed tomorrow I'd like nothing better then to never see a one of you again.

Free all my people and I become a non-threat factor for the safety of Amarrian citizens. The stench of you will take decades to wash off, having to commit myself to a life of killing was not a choice, absent your horrific slavery empire, I would have selected for myself. Nonetheless I will use everyday of this long capsuleer life to exact whatever justice I can against any of you until an enforceable peace is signed, as little as that may be in the big scheme of things, it will be relentless.


There was peace.

The Republic broke it.
There can be no lasting peace while even one Matari is held in slavery, let my people go!


We aren't your people anymore. We haven't been for hundreds of years. Amarr is our home.

The only ones that you can truly call Matari, are those soldiers that are captured as prisoners of war and enslaved, thanks to a war you started. Rather than freeing your people, you're sending them to their chains.
Ah! Yet another turncoat .... let me guess you too are exempt from the loving soothing nurturing status of Amarrian slavery you accept for others, because you're so special right?


I am not exempt. I was born and raised a slave, as were my parents, and their parents, and their parents.
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#110 - 2013-10-02 09:59:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray Mitar
Zsaryna Adrelana wrote:
So do you have a serious answer to the question.
What can you as a republic offer the Empire for us to consider releasing our slaves to you?
What you're doing at the moment, saying 'well we will kill you and your family unless you stop' sort of hardens the issue. For instance, my caring about the slavery issue was limited, indeed I was open to an agreement being reached with the Matari. Then something happened and I changed my mind.
You are the perfect example of why a diplomatic peace is unlikely, something always happens to change your little minds, you are a empire of "refusards", and math challenged followers of your empress who only follow her orders when it is easy. You have a better deal on the table then your history merits you should grab it and run.
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#111 - 2013-10-02 10:05:48 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:

I am not exempt. I was born and raised a slave, as were my parents, and their parents, and their parents.
So little miss happy slave, your masters sent you to be educated where? Don't look now but your pants are on fire.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#112 - 2013-10-02 10:16:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
They did not send me anywhere. I was released with Her Imperial Majesty's emancipation edict, and my family went to the Republic. I chose to go back home, because I didn't fit there.

The Minmatar in servitude have been living in the Empire their entire lives. Their families have been living in the Empire for generations. They aren't your people, no matter how much you want them to be. If slavery is a problem, then it's a problem for citizens of the Empire, not the Republic.
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#113 - 2013-10-02 10:22:30 UTC
I do not go into my personal life on the IGS. Suffice it to say that the circumstances were sufficiently compelling for me to reassess my priorities. I would like to hope that you would understand if you knew, but I may be setting my expectations a little high.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#114 - 2013-10-02 10:36:43 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
They did not send me anywhere. I was released with Her Imperial Majesty's emancipation edict, and my family went to the Republic. I chose to go back home, because I didn't fit there.

The Minmatar in servitude have been living in the Empire their entire lives. Their families have been living in the Empire for generations. They aren't your people, no matter how much you want them to be. If slavery is a problem, then it's a problem for citizens of the Empire, not the Republic.
So I'm a little confused on your timeline here, how long did you attend University in the Republic? Since when did the amarr empire start releasing amarr citizens to the Minmatar Republic? If you left as an emancipated slave how did you get the funds to become a capsuleer? Surely you didn't come to the Minmatar Republic to leech off of it to become a capsuleer because your masters would not pay for it? That would be foul indeed! The happy little slave who runs off to better herself to serve her masters, such an outlandish tale.

Could you elaborate on the timeline a bit for clarity, and those pants are still on fire.
Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#115 - 2013-10-02 10:48:04 UTC
Shiori Shaishi wrote:
Slaver Filth wrote:
Could you tell me the story of how it feels to lose six ships and be podded seven times in one day? [...]

I am a pilot of woefully limited combat experience and I would be fascinated to hear the details [...]

There is no doubt in my mind that if you'd bother to undock and attempt to engage other capsuleers, you'd very soon have far more vivid, first-hand account of the matter.
Well I'm very busy being an educator and an adjudicator, an Apostle, as well as a constellation holder, however when I do undock from my home in low sec I spend most of my time in wormhole space to feed my insatiable appetite for sleeper loot. If you ever find your way safely to Aridia, or better yet a wormhole connected to it I will be more then happy to give your noob ass a pod express ride home.

Foolish child there is far more to New Eden then just shooting other capsuleers, some of us actually like to make isk, large quantities of isk.

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#116 - 2013-10-02 10:58:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Ray Mitar wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
They did not send me anywhere. I was released with Her Imperial Majesty's emancipation edict, and my family went to the Republic. I chose to go back home, because I didn't fit there.

The Minmatar in servitude have been living in the Empire their entire lives. Their families have been living in the Empire for generations. They aren't your people, no matter how much you want them to be. If slavery is a problem, then it's a problem for citizens of the Empire, not the Republic.
So I'm a little confused on your timeline here, how long did you attend University in the Republic? Since when did the amarr empire start releasing amarr citizens to the Minmatar Republic? If you left as an emancipated slave how did you get the funds to become a capsuleer? Surely you didn't come to the Minmatar Republic to leech off of it to become a capsuleer because your masters would not pay for it? That would be foul indeed! The happy little slave who runs off to better herself to serve her masters, such an outlandish tale.

Could you elaborate on the timeline a bit for clarity, and those pants are still on fire.


I attended for several years. I received grants and loans on merit of being an immigrant and testing positive for capsule-compatibility, and repaid these after graduation. Education placements were provided for many immigrants.

Why is my background is relevant to the discussion?
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#117 - 2013-10-02 11:00:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ava Starfire
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ava, you have just asked the Empire to hand you a brimming cup of poison. I understand your anger, Winds know I do, and I sympathise with it, but what you have just asked for will destroy the Matari far more surely than it would destroy the Empire.

Even if all those people could be gotten to Minmatar space, you would bury half of them within a year.


And the alternative? To be patient? To do nothing?

How long do people expect us to wait, exactly?

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#118 - 2013-10-02 11:05:36 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
I would like to be done with all of you Amarrians, if a binding enforceable peace was signed tomorrow I'd like nothing better then to never see a one of you again.

Free all my people and I become a non-threat factor for the safety of Amarrian citizens. The stench of you will take decades to wash off, having to commit myself to a life of killing was not a choice, absent your horrific slavery empire, I would have selected for myself. Nonetheless I will use everyday of this long capsuleer life to exact whatever justice I can against any of you until an enforceable peace is signed, as little as that may be in the big scheme of things, it will be relentless.


There was peace.

The Republic broke it.


You people really dont get it do you?

Saying "Oh hey, we're sorry... but we're not doing anything whatsoever to make up for anything that we did, including the ONLY actual genocide in the modern era, and as a matter of fact, we're going to go ahead and keep on doing most of it" wasnt much of an attempt at ensuring peace lasted.

Shakor is a would be dictator who gained power in a coup. No more, no less. However, trying to blame everything that transpired on him alone is a work of arrogance and hubris only the Empire could manage with a straight face.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#119 - 2013-10-02 11:48:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Zsaryna Adrelana
Disregard, I know a waste of my time when I see it.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#120 - 2013-10-02 12:00:56 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
I would like to be done with all of you Amarrians, if a binding enforceable peace was signed tomorrow I'd like nothing better then to never see a one of you again.

Free all my people and I become a non-threat factor for the safety of Amarrian citizens. The stench of you will take decades to wash off, having to commit myself to a life of killing was not a choice, absent your horrific slavery empire, I would have selected for myself. Nonetheless I will use everyday of this long capsuleer life to exact whatever justice I can against any of you until an enforceable peace is signed, as little as that may be in the big scheme of things, it will be relentless.


There was peace.

The Republic broke it.


You people really dont get it do you?

Saying "Oh hey, we're sorry... but we're not doing anything whatsoever to make up for anything that we did, including the ONLY actual genocide in the modern era, and as a matter of fact, we're going to go ahead and keep on doing most of it" wasnt much of an attempt at ensuring peace lasted.

Shakor is a would be dictator who gained power in a coup. No more, no less. However, trying to blame everything that transpired on him alone is a work of arrogance and hubris only the Empire could manage with a straight face.


The Starkmanir issue happened before the Republic existed. Activities that did affect the Republic--such as foreign enslavement--were stopped after peace agreements were made. Slaves were released, some to the Republic.

I cannot think of an action the Empire made against the Republic during peacetime that would justify a breach of peace.